Rosanna
Hello, and welcome to Episode 10 of the relentless pursuit podcast. We’re calling this episode back to school ish,

Jordan
ish. ish.

Rosanna
This may be the most important episode of our first season. And I say that because it’s something this topic is happening in real time. And it’s affecting a lot of us and I think maybe people would say that only parents who have students that are going back to school are being impacted by what’s happening right now. But I think all members of the community have a stake in what school will look like during the 20-21 school year.

Jordan
Mm hmm. Absolutely. And it’s it’s certainly a circumstance that is It’s frustrating for everybody. And it kind of takes what we’re used to and throws it out the window. And that’s not just true only in education. But I think we’re feeling it more so now because the question of what are we going to do with our children for the short term? What’s going to become their education or for the long term are pretty significant questions to be grappling with right now.

Rosanna
Yeah. So as parents, as communities, as schools, as we’re all getting ready to go back to school, and by the time you hear this, you may already have students back in school, we all have to recognize that it’s not going to be easy. It’s not going to be a one size fits all approach. There will be schools, districts and states who are online, some who are in person, some that have a hybrid of both. But regardless of what the situation in this scenario is, for our families, and for our students, we’re really going to have to dig in. We are no longer in control, which we like to be in control, right. There’s usually a rhyme and a reason and a routine with back to school that happens. You by the school supplies, you buy the new gym shoes, you put them on the bus, you say goodbye, right? And you kind of like thrust into this next season or next phase.

Jordan
That’s helpful because that’s that is predictable. We’ve organized our lives around that pattern. So now that the pattern is thrown off, how do we kind of make the most of what we do have control over?

Rosanna
Right. So it’s not the norm. We’re not in control. So how are we going to handle this? So let’s talk. Yeah, let’s start with, I think in order for everybody to kind of really think about this, we need to kind of go back to the basics in a way. And I think we all just need to take a step back and contemplate what is education.

Jordan
Yeah, and a lot of people have come up to us for the past six months or so into like, Oh, well, like you both have backgrounds in education. You must know a lot of these answers are you must have had a great time with your kids at home during the spring semester, teaching them and laughing and we’re like, No, it’s nothing like that. It was really full of challenges. And we don’t have all the answers or even many answers at all. And we’re really in the same circumstance, as almost everyone else finds himself in with just trying to orchestrate like, how are we going to facilitate our child’s learning, alongside being professionals who need to be working as well. I saw an article not too long ago that the subline was either you can have a kid or you can have a job, but you can’t have both. And I think that points to some of the challenges that we’re seeing both between prioritizing the health and safety of everyone in society, and also grappling with the economic ramifications that that has, and we feel that as a society and we feel that as a household. So how do we balance those things, especially when a lot of it is just flat out, not in our control. So going back to your question, what is education? I think we have to start here. And I’m glad you brought that up. Because we really have to recognize that education is more than what happens at school. And I think Mark Twain was the one who had quipped at some point that he said, I try not to let my schooling interfere with my education. And it’s important to realize that school plays an important role in a child’s education but it is not the end all be all of the learning that takes place in a child’s development into adulthood. So I would define education in its broadest sense as everything a child learns as they develop into a young adult.

Rosanna
So not just content knowledge of subjects, you’re talking about. If you’re talking about everything that they learn, you’re talking about morals, values, right like. Societal constructs and norms.

Jordan
Responsibility, attitude, yeah, culture, like there’s a lot of different places like children are going to be educate a lot of different sources children are going to receive their education from. And I think that the centerpiece of any child’s education is their family and is their parents. Because that is where they’re living day in, day out. And they’re even when we don’t intentionally try to teach something or pass something specific on, that’s just the environment that our kids are living in, and they’re absorbing that from us. And so, we don’t often think of it this way, but I would say like parents are your children’s first and most important teachers, and any other learning that takes place, at a school or from other organizations or other other sources are ones that the parent has chosen to partner with. But it’s still that parents choice for you know, who gets partnered with and who they don’t.

Rosanna
But so then I think a bigger point that you’re making is, so really the parent and what the parent teaches the child from like zero to three, four or five years when they start school is like the foundation of their educational journey. Because it’s not just the ABCs and the math and the reading. It’s, it’s not that it’s everything that comes before. Even the teaching them about what learning is, and like those expectations for learning and growing.

Jordan
So I think that schools could never really encompass the totality of what education truly involves. They occupy a very important space within a child’s education, and there’s a lot that they’re going to get from their schooling experience. But as we think it’s important to consider what education is because Plan A is I’m going to teach my child what I can for my household. I’m going to outsource a portion of their learning to their local school, or their private school, or homeschooling, or however we choose to facilitate that. But that’s Plan A and plan A just isn’t going to work for the foreseeable future. Eventually, we can get back to Plan A. But for now, we have all these wrenches thrown into this pattern that we’re accustomed to that it’s important to look back and say like, okay, education doesn’t stop. Our children are going to be learning during this time, one way or another. Some of it’s still going to be from the school. And some of it’s still gonna be from us. So if we can understand the fact that that is still going on, then we can take a look at what can we control and what is out of our control, and then we can focus on taking responsibility for what we still can during this time.

Rosanna
I think that’s why parents are struggling because that’s planning. Just like as adults and even as young adults, we have like a plan for life. This is like, we’re going to go to college here, then we’re going to get this degree and get this job like, right, it’s a succession of steps that we’re working towards that if we do everything just right, then we get the outcome that we want. And so it would be the same with educating our kids, right? As part of Plan A, we move to this neighborhood that is associated with this school because we believe in public education, and we want our kids to go to this school with these types of teachers who are going to facilitate this kind of learning and knowledge. And we’re going to partner with them, we’re going to be on the PTO, we are going to attend parent teacher conferences, we’re going to be involved, we’re going to know what’s going on.

Jordan
We’re gonna make sure our kids do their homework and being the kind of citizen we want them to be outside of the house.

Rosanna
Correct. And we’re gonna all of these other programs through the local park districts and the community, right, like, these are all the ways we’re going to build into our children’s learning, knowledge, education, understanding of the world to be productive citizens. Okay, so we’ve taken all these steps to get there. And now that plan A is out the window. And so I think this is where people are struggling, it’s like, Okay, this is what I want. This is kind of what we need for our kids. And now that’s not happening. And so I think the result is kind of just sheer anger, and frustration, and rightfully so. So really a lot of this moving forward has to be alright, we have to acknowledge that this is not the norm. We have to acknowledge now that we are not in control, it is not happening according to the way that we want, and how are we going to be flexible? And how are we going to challenge ourselves in our attitudes to make sure that we can do the best that we can for our kids while keeping them safe?

Jordan
Yeah, so we’re kind of on to plan B. And like I said, like we we’ve structured so much of our pattern of living around Plan A, now that we’re unable to facilitate that, Plan B is really cruddy. A lot of it may involve us at home with our kids trying to facilitate the school’s lesson. And it’s really hard to take a teacher’s lesson for your child and implement that at home.

Rosanna
Especially when you are not a trained educational professional.

Jordan
I think even if you are, it’s it’s like, you know, you’re you’re kind of like the sub, in a sense, right? Where if no matter how like we saw this too, like we have experience in this field, but even taking something that someone else designed and had intended to implement in their way in their classroom, trying to do that in our way in our environment, that it doesn’t translate the same. And it’s a frustrating experience for the teacher for our kids and for us, even though we’re all doing the best that we can in that circumstance. And I think we need to acknowledge that too. Like, it’s not what any of us would have wanted. And it’s kind of trying to make the most of the circumstance that we are in, but there are inherent challenges and frustrations that come along with it.

Rosanna
So if anybody is feeling frustrated, and wants to pull out their hair, like we can acknowledge it, this is a very good reason to do it right there that this is something that we are all dealing with and trying to deal with and figure out what the best route is. So if you do feel like that you’re not alone, because you have to educators, trained professionals with their own kids, right? It’s like your kids, you know, behave much better at school for their teacher than they do for you at home. Right? Or they

Jordan
My favorite is when like it can’t believe you just did that. I’m going to call your teacher and tell them no, no, no, don’t call my teacher!

Rosanna
That yeah, so we get that it’s you know, you’re taking your their kids out of their like normal learning environment, and then you’re putting them at home. And for us, that would be if we are remote learning for part of the year or on certain days of the week, I will simultaneously have a kindergartener that I’m helping facilitate knowledge for and learning and teaching a third grader and a fifth grader. We also have a two year old who you know does not adhere to the rules because he’s two.

Jordan
He only draws on the walls once in a while.

Rosanna
So you know, there’s there’s some limitations there, right where the teacher in the classroom is teaching all the third graders where I would be splitting my time between three students who have a variety of levels and a variety of needs. And we won’t even go into parents who have children with IEPs, or learning disabilities or other things that really kind of keep them from learning, but at the right pace.

Jordan
Right, and I think every family’s circumstances different and that’s one of the first things that we all have to acknowledge is that there really is no one size fits all solution, because there there is no one size or circumstance that families are sharing. You have households with one parent of households with two parents, you have households where, you know, maybe both parents can be home and facilitate learning with their children; households where both parents are expected to be out of the house. Then it’s like, well, if my kids are home, what what in the world am I going to do? And there’s there’s every little nuance and challenge that’s there. So I think that’s one of the first things that we want to recognize with Plan B is that there are some things that are just going to be priorities that they just have to happen. And some things that are, we’d like to get to, but we just, this is not the right time or environment to facilitate that. And we have to be okay with letting that go.

Rosanna
Right. So you I mean, you have students that are high schoolers, and so legally, they can be left at home during the school day. But that also does not ensure that learning is happening when they’re at home and if two parents are out of the house. So a motivated student right, will probably continue to thrive and do well. But for those who struggle, this is not an ideal situation. You even have students who then maybe because parents have lost jobs, and they may have a part time job. They may have extended to what like full time hours to help carry the family along to put food on the table to help pay the bills. While things are not ideal in the economy and with job situations, so how does a school then expect that 17 year olds to say, Oh, I’m sorry, I have to report online for five hours of school, or I have to go to work to feed my family.

Jordan
They’re caught between multiple significant responsibilities. Yeah. And so it is it is really challenging. And that’s where I think families and students and schools are all caught in the middle. We are doing, you know, as much as we can to make the most of learning during this time. But this this time and the recommendations and the regulations that are coming out within each state, it really puts restrictions on how much of our typical Plan A kind of learning we can do. So yeah, I mean, the where we’re making the most of it, and the most doesn’t feel like very much right now. It feels like maybe things are even more complicated than they were. So I think we we have to acknowledge that that no matter your circumstances, it’s not what any of us would have chosen or would have planned on. But this is the reality that we live in. So how do we make the most of it? And I think that goes back to what really does a child’s education encompass.

Rosanna
Okay. And so what does it encompass? I think encompasses two things. I think there’s content knowledge, that’s grade appropriate for every level, right? That state has, you know, mandated that you know, a kindergartner, first grader, second grader, high school, these these are things they should be learning and are responsible for. So there’s content and that’s where you have these trained professionals, right that have degrees and even advanced degrees, multiple master’s degrees in these contents to teach these kids that. And so we can acknowledge that we are not those people, not we, you know, personally but just as parents like we may not have that education that allows us to do that. But there’s a whole nother set of things that kids are taught if you’re looking at education, and that is morals, values behaviors, like school isn’t school just doesn’t –

Jordan
Your habits, your your culture like yeah, those are things that go well beyond what could ever be incorporated into curriculum.

Rosanna
Right, like school and other people can teach you how to think. Right? What are good study habits, those are like behaviors about you turn in work, you get credit, like, what are those implications, those life skills that are transferable to jobs, like that’s not through reading a book, but it’s the behaviors that you learn being a part of school. And so those are still things that we can teach from home, attitude, morals, values, just systematic theory of participating in and helping be a part of a community.

Jordan
Right. So I think that’s where it comes down to as parents we’ve got to look and say like, okay, we we can’t replicate what’s what would normally go on in the classroom. We’re going to work with our schools according to whatever that that school plan is to do the best job we can, you know, keeping our students learning at school moving forward. But there are things that maybe now is a time that we can focus on what we as parents can teach. And that’s gonna be that’s gonna look different than what our classroom teachers can teach, but appropriately so. So what are the things that we do know? What are the skills that we have? What are our passions that we can bring our child alongside and say, Hey, like, let’s take some time to explore this together? Or what are some of the things that our children are interested in that doesn’t really have a strong intersection with the school curriculum that we can say like, right now? Like, let’s let’s take some time to explore that together. Like you’ve talked about this thing. we’ve examined this, let’s kind of double down in this area you’re personally interested in and see where this goes.

Rosanna
Okay. I think that’s a unique thing right? Like for parents who like to cook, right or bake, right, there’s, there’s a great way to bring kids alongside in that. And there are even ways to teach math and to teach it right reading a recipe, right? Using different calculations and measurements, like, we can teach them those things that’s not on a worksheet, but it’s a skill. And it’s a concept that allows them to continue to learn and grow and facilitate bigger ideas and bigger thoughts, that that will still is still an education. It’s just not the plan A education.

Jordan
Right. So as best as we can, this might be a time to look at that opportunity that we have for our children. And this is where maybe not everyone will agree with what I’m about to say. But I think there’s a certain amount of knowledge and learning that children get from school. And that can that will is going to go slower over the course of this school year. They may not get as much, you know, education or learning from school that they would in a typical year. And I think that students can recoup that. I think that that can be remediated, I still think there’s going to be long term consequences for just the sheer quantity of knowledge that they can learn over the course of their schooling. But at the same time, I look back to everything I learned through the time we graduated high school, and how much of that after I graduated did I really was was completely necessary. We’ve forgotten a great deal of what we’ve learned.

Rosanna
Sure, remember learning all the states and all the capitals, right? And the maps coloring the maps and where everything was looked like right? That’s the process of learning and memorization and it’s not so much about you know, that Bismarck is the capital of does that North Dakota or South Dakota or North Dakota I think? Yeah, see, so sometimes, but learning that did not make me a successful entrepreneur.

Jordan
Right? So there’s, there’s a great deal that’s valuable from school. But at the same time, like looking at the bigger picture, there are still valuable things that we can have our students learned during this time. And still looking at the long term, there’s there’s a lot of there’s a lot of years left, we’re talking about our youth. And so if we can teach them some of the foundational practices that will make them successful in any realm that they find themselves and then I think we can at least say that we’ve done that much and set them up for success in that regard. So looking at Plan B, I think what we get to is this idea of there’s a lot that we can’t control, the what can we take control over. One of the first ones that you were referencing was attitude, and we are all challenged and frustrated during this time, but our attitude that we exemplify in front of our children in front of our students will have an impact on how they respond to the circumstances as well. So like how would you recommend like a parent go about sort of like coping with the implicit frustrations that are here and teaching their child how to how to deal in kind?

Rosanna
Well, I think there’s going to be that moment where when your school your district, your state mandates whatever it is that they’re mandating for learning, you’re going to have to take a minute and I think that’s a minute to yourself, a minute with your spouse, a minute with your other mom and dad and you know, parent friends…

Jordan
Is there any plan that a district could come out where the response is not going to be, “What?!”

Rosanna
No. If we send them we’re crazy for sending them. If we keep them home, you’re crazy for thinking that we’re going to keep them. Like there’s a halftime who’s gonna remember who’s going on what day and what like, so it’s not going to be ideal. So I think part of it is like, okay, let it out. Let out your frustration. let out your anxiety, let out your fears in a safe environment away from your children’s ears, right? Like, figure out what that needs to be, and have that moment and then gather yourself, right? And fix your attitude and realize that schools are doing what they’re kind of being mandated to do, that they’re in a lose lose situation, and that they’re going to try this. It’s unprecedented. There’s no rulebook, this is you know, the, you know, even though we’re calling this plan B, this is like planned disaster for them, and realize that the way that we move forward with our attitude will have a bigger impact on our children and how they feel and what they feel capable of doing, and how they even feel about their safety if we are just cheerleaders for them in this instead of critics, right?

Jordan
So it’s okay to go into our bedroom and close the door and pull our hair out. Or have our friend or group of friends who we can like commiserate with. But once we’re in front of our kids, it’s, “We can do this, we’re going to figure this out together, we’re going to make the most of this somehow.”

Rosanna
Yeah, but not in a, in a lying way in a, we have to remind ourselves this. This year is not going to be ideal. And it could be that this year and part of the next year is not going to be ideal. And we have to keep reminding ourselves, we are not in control. This is not the norm, but we can do this. Ultimately, we’re okay right now. So let’s, let’s make the best of the situation.

Jordan
Yeah. And I, I am just thinking through what the opposite would look like if you know, to and in front of our children, we had a really pessimistic attitude, then I think that would sort of give them permission to have that same attitude. And that’s how they would begin interpreting and responding to the circumstances as well.

Rosanna
Yeah. And then that would impact how they feel about school, how they feel about education. What they think of like local government, like it has lasting impact. So teaching them to, you know, make make the best lemonade they can out of the lemons considering is a skill that they need to figure out for life, because life is not always going to go according to Plan A.

Jordan
Right. So that’s one of the biggest things that we can do is make sure that we focus on having the right attitude. And, you know, one thing that comes to mind too, is that, you know, I’ve talked to plenty of kids and as we’ve had conversations, now I expressed to them, it’s the most important thing, the reason why you came to school, so you can be in your classroom learning from your teacher alongside your peers. There’s only one thing that would get in the way of a student doing that. One reason why we would have a students down in the office instead of in their classroom, or you know, being home rather than being at school is because of safety. And I think that that’s important to recognize too is that like learning is the most important thing except for the thing that is – is always in any environment the most important – is safety. If you don’t have your health, if you can’t go about business in a way that is going to ensure your your well being, then you got to take a step back and make sure that that is in place before you can go back to whatever your objective is.

Rosanna
And I think that’s what a lot of people miss. So being and working for schools, we understand this more so than maybe even some parents recognize or even people who don’t have kids in school is that teachers, administrators, superintendents, like local school districts want to keep kids safe. So when we think about children’s safety, the things that come to my mind are like lockdown drills, right that if someone was to come into the building, to you know, jeopardize the safety of kids, we take that very seriously. Same thing with like tornado drills or fight, right? We take those things very seriously because we want to make sure that we protect all of the students. And I don’t think that everybody realizes that the school not only wants to teach students but wants to keep them safe, right before we had kids, I had kids. They were high school kids that were my first days of teaching not much younger than I was. And teachers and administrators, they take on that role of like protectors, you know, just like parents. And they want to do and see what’s best for those kids. And so when you have a global pandemic that is threatening their safety, that’s a big deal.

Jordan
This is not unique to any one district either. I’ve seen a lot of folks like give responses to their, their schools or their districts’ leadership, and sometimes what the response from the leadership is that this is this is not unique to this district. We’re not the only district trying to navigate remote learning or hybrid learning, or you know, building in these, these safety protocols to facilitate education this fall, this is everywhere.

Rosanna
Yeah. And we know a lot of educators, principals and whatnot, who we’ve talked to say like, how are you feeling like what are you know, as they’re waiting on mandates and what will be voted on and what the plans are. And a lot of them say, I, I’m not sleeping at night, because ultimately, when you’re the head of a school, and you’re the head of the teachers and the staff and the students, no one wants to make any kind of decision that puts anybody in jeopardy. And so we all have to realize that everyone is doing the best that they can, trying to not only educate and keep, you know, communities running and children thriving and families and going, but that this is going to be a really hard process for everybody.

Jordan
Right. So, so we talked about attitude. I mean, one of the most important things that’s parents can appropriately facilitate during this time. Aanother thing that we’ve been talking about is taking a look at what you can’t control. And just acknowledging that we can’t control a lot. But also taking time to look at there are still some facets that we can control and taking responsibility for putting what we can into those.

Rosanna
Yeah, so when you know kids are sent home with a list of expectations they’re trying to meet and then they sent home some of those buffer activities like, okay, here’s, here’s the assignments you have to turn in. But if you have more time, or if your mom has more patience, try these try these enrichment activities. Like, just feel free to let them go. That’s okay. Right? If you’re facilitating multiple kids at home, with a lot of different curriculum, maybe there’s just not time or energy or patience, right to get to those extra thing, no one is marking you off. And if they are, well, it is what it is.

Jordan
We can only ask the best from ourselves. So I think we need to just focus on like doing what we can, but also crossing off what we can’t. From there, like, let’s let’s not judge our schools, let’s not judge one another. And maybe the hardest thing is don’t judge yourself. Now really would be an ideal time to lean on others. Even though we’ve been isolated in certain ways. This is a time that presents some unique reasons and opportunities to, to gather together in the sense of like supporting one another and just helping one another navigate some of the challenges that are implicit during this era.

Rosanna
Yeah, I would agree. You know, talk to other parents, talk to other tutors, teachers and see how you can help, how we can help our students how we can help them how we can help each other to kind of learn and grow through this next year. Because even if we start with Plan B by the time the school year ends, if cases increase and things get worse, we might move on to plan C’s, D, E and F. And by then we’re really going to tear out our hair.

Jordan
So this is an important conversation, one that we definitely wanted to bring up on the podcast because a lot of people have asked us just with our background in education, how we’re dealing with things. And the answer is that there’s a lot of challenges and a lot of answers that we don’t know. But we’re trying to recognize that everyone’s circumstances different. And we’re all really just in a position where we can encourage one another, to do what we have to do, and to make the most of the opportunities that we can recognize within this time. You know, one of the things that we were going to do was to come out with a list of tips for facilitating education during this fall. But we realized that some of the things that are going to work for us are really not going to be working for many other families. And so it’s it’s more important that each family, explore what their priorities and what their opportunities are, and dive into those. So when it makes sense to share like, here’s the Catapano daily schedule. And here’s how we you know, three tips for making sure your kids don’t overdose on snacks. Like that didn’t make as much sense to share. But I think just at least opening the door for conversation with one another and with you is important because we want to put some of our thoughts and experiences out there. We want to be receptive to some of the things that you guys are doing, that are making the most of this time that we’re in. So please, you can reach out to us at therelentlesspursuitpodcast.com. You can find our show notes from today’s episode and leave some of your own feedback about your experiences and your thoughts related to education in general, and especially as we navigate Plan B this fall. You can also view this episode on YouTube and leave comments for us there and you can reach out to us directly via email. We look forward to hearing from you guys. And thank you so much for tuning in with us today. Bye guys. Take care

 

Rosanna
Welcome to the relentless pursuit podcast, episode nine influences and inspirations. So you might be wondering, what does that mean? I think when we were originally coming up with our podcast titles and content, we thought about talking about who our influences and inspirations work. And then in talking about this the other day, we realized maybe that’s not the way to go. So we’re going to kind of just dive in a little bit into all of our inspirations and influences and how they impact all of us.

Jordan
Yeah, so what we really want to try to talk through is just the idea of being inspired and being influenced by various people in the way that they end up impacting others. The reason why this came to mind for me was because I think about you hear this really the most with musicians and you kind of can talk to just about any musician, and they can rattle off a few of the artists who came before them that they would say they were influenced by. And so I have always thought about that because I think, to some level, just about any professional can probably point to at least one but maybe several other people within the same field, who through their work have gone on to influence that person. And I’ve tried to think about this from like the education realm, where we have been a teacher, there are a number of other people who I feel like I’m influenced by and kind of it’s in some ways, aspire to imitate, aspire to create a degree of their own styles, and the art that they have. And so I think it goes beyond just like tips like you could look up and you can google any tips and you can read, like ideas or little pithy, like wisdom quotes from almost any blogger. But I think the idea of being influenced or inspired by someone goes a lot deeper and in some ways, it’s far more impactful, but also less tangible to in some ways.

Rosanna
So it’s more would you say it’s more like heart and soul and feeling and like essence than like head knowledge? Is that kind of what you’re going for?

Jordan
Yeah. So I would say it’s, it’s art, like some of your biggest influences are not people you have sat down with and they’ve explained step by step, what they do. These are people who in a more maybe in a more like esoteric sense they have a certain style and a certain art and a certain accomplishment that is unique to them that then we adopt for ourselves and tried to emulate but also adapt to ourselves.

Rosanna
Okay, so like through observation, through proximity, and not even proximity of being close to them, but like proximity to like their work or their interaction. So in that case of a musician, in listening to a musician, another musician might be inspired by their sound or their style, and want to emulate that in some way, or kind of take what they’ve seen and turn it into something that works for them.

Jordan
Exactly. So it’s not like you just listen to one song and you get really jazzed up every time you listen to that song. This is you’ve listened to the majority of an artist’s work, and you’re very familiar with them at a relatively intimate level because of the frequency and consistency that you’ve exposed yourself. I would even say like you could even be something of a disciple of that person. I think musicians do that because they grow up listening to various musicians at some point when they decide to become a professional musician and professional artist, they are whether they want to or not like drawing upon those sounds that most influenced and inspired them when they were younger.

Rosanna
So it’s not the person who taught them to play an instrument, right?

Jordan
It wouldn’t even be like their piano teacher, their guitar instructor, it’ll be like these these artists who paved the way in the field before them.

Rosanna
And it’s also not like maybe someone who has mentored them because mentorship would be different, right? It’s more of like a tips like a how to or this is what you could try. But it’s something about the essence of the person and the art that they create. Okay, so do you have like examples of that that you could share? That might make more sense too.

Jordan
I have a few examples I want to touch on. Maybe the most repeated example is the Beatles and so many modern musicians will point back to the Beatles and say they were influenced by their sound and some even say they, they founded like modern rock and roll and there are many accolades. So a lot of people ask, like, who inspired the Beatles? And there’s a lot of information about this. They’ve been asked this question a lot. And they really draw upon Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Little Richard. And there’s a long list of others that they were just kind of inspired and influenced by. And in fact, John Lennon had even said if there hadn’t been Elvis, then there would not have been the Beatles.

Rosanna
So there was something so profound about Elvis and his sound and his style –

Jordan
and his sideburns I think –

Rosanna
maybe or the jumpsuits right, that set like their soul on fire in some unique way that paved the way for them to want to create something of their own that was similar. Which is if you think about it, that’s like a really big that’s like really moving that’s like for someone to touch you in that way. And then for you to go on and create something because of that. I mean that’s huge.

Jordan
I’m going to almost picture like this same path and so certain people have walked on this path before. Some got so far, and some others like the Beatles, then like walked along that same path and then took it the next step further have added their own stretch to it. And others have come since then and gone further.

Rosanna
Which would be great if as individuals, as couples, as families, as companies, if we did the same thing, yeah. So who are we being inspired by and who are we being influenced by? It’s a good question.

Jordan
Yeah. So I think that this, this applies, especially to the arts. So I looked up some information about Stephen King, and he is a really prolific American author, really distinct style of storytelling, and just a robust writer. He is inspired by Edgar Allan Poe, you can probably get a big dose of that. He really liked Bram Stoker, who wrote the novel Dracula. And in fact one of Stephen King’s short stories “Salem’s Lot” is going to be On like modern take on the like the style and the the gloom that Dracula had to it. And there there are others as well. He’s he really he reads all the time and absorbs that then whether willingly or not, like finds ways through his characters and stories and tones to emulate those things.

Rosanna
Okay. Very interesting.

Jordan
Lady Gaga, I think we were talking about her and with some of these artists, we could almost guess who their influences are because you just see that stamp on their work. And so Madonna was the first person where I might bet she was probably heavily influenced by Madonna and just really looked into it. It’s like, Yeah, absolutely. But it was one of the ones who tops the list for her. Some others would be Queen and David Bowie.

Rosanna
Who I mean, thrive on the eccentric, right? Right. So it’s like, oh, like, Why? Why were we at all surprised when we met Lady Gaga or when she was kind of catapulted into pop culture like she was doing some of those same things, but you know, our generation or generations younger they’re not, you know, don’t remember David Bowie or Queen. And so there’s not that connection there. But it’s not like she is completely without influence out of nowhere, right.

Jordan
And so I think we assume that there’s, there’s validity in being totally original. But as we look at some of the most successful and even the most, like original kinds of people that are out there, they’re, they’re really not, you know, out of the blue, they have inspirations and even though they are their, you know, unique and successful selves, we can see that there are doses of others who have come before them in the work that they have.

Rosanna
That reminds me of a quote, I used to tell my students when I was teaching, and it was like that there are only seven or eight stories in the world. They are just those same seven or eight stories are just retold, time after time, generation after generation in a new setting in a new place with new characters, but the stories those threads are still the same. The roots are still there.

Jordan
Yeah. I think that that’s really true with you know, within each field. One person that I am inspired by to talk more about later is Neil deGrasse Tyson. H introduces himself as your personal astrophysicist, since we all need a personal astrophysicist. But he is this this really brilliant scientist. And he points to the likes of Isaac Newton, who came several hundred years before and Albert Einstein and also more recently, Carl Sagan. And he especially points to Carl Sagan, who they did have a chance to have a personal relationship. And he even talks about how he doesn’t just think of himself as a scientist, but as an educator, and that largely comes from the influence that Carl Sagan had on him as he was growing into adulthood and becoming who he was. So I think so I wanted to include that example as well, because I don’t think it is restricted to the arts. In fact, I think it’s applicable to every domain of life that we’re engaged in so both in our professional but also in our personal realms. And I think that leads to the conversation because like you suggested, we want to be the type of people who are influencing others. But I also think it’s more important, or at least a first step to look at who is influencing us and in what areas are those influences? Are there any areas where maybe where we’re deficit, or maybe unwittingly had a negative influence that we could aspire to, you know, get get away from and find something better? So I think that is our introduction to this idea of being influenced, which goes beyond just a couple, you know, tips and pithy wisdom quotes and looks more into the art that you’re creating in all areas of your life, and the people that are guiding you to create your own story in your own style.

Rosanna
Yeah, I would agree. So do you want to just dive into some questions about this and kind of Yeah, it takes us yeah. Okay, so let’s do it.

Jordan
Okay, I have I have some interesting ones here. Can’t wait to talk about these with you. And I want to know, I want to know your take on this question. Okay. Can you study a person to be influenced by them? Or is their influence more absorbed in like a supplemental kind of process?

Rosanna
Yeah. You couldn’t start off with an easier question.

I think you can, I think you can study it, like you can kind of choose for yourself who you want to be influenced by. But I also think that there are people in your own circles that have huge influence over you. And because of proximity and consistency, you can’t help but be influenced by them. So I think of me, I think of my parents being an influence for me.

Jordan
I think that’s that’s the biggest thing. When you’re raised in your household and see those are like the primary adults you’re seeing day after day, year after year, you can’t help but absorb the different kinds of influences that they have in shaping you.

Rosanna
And I think for some people, you know, their parents are their biggest influences. And I think that can be positive and negative. I think that’s different for everybody. But because if you’ve had a negative experience, you can develop or choose to develop a certain way to avoid that influence. Or you can if you have even a positive or negative experience, same thing you can learn from those things and develop those things. And, you know, kind of learn them.

Jordan
Have you ever been doing something and someone’s like, stopped you and said, Oh, my gosh, you sound you look just like your mom? They think that that’s, you know, that it was a there’s there’s genetics involved in that as well. But I think that gives you a moment to pause because you’ve seen somebody speak or just interact, you know, for so many formative years of your life that you can’t help but to just naturally adapt to those things as well. And, you know, I found that a lot what, you know, people have said that like, Oh, you remind me so much of your dad when I’m interacting with you. And you know, I don’t take that as a compliment or as an insult. It just is just kind of a fact that this is a person that I’ve been following for many years of my life. And I think that’s similar to others that either we’ve been exposed to or to have chosen to expose ourselves to. And we just kind of naturally adopted those things without even really intending to.

Rosanna
Yeah, but I think there’s some choice in that too. So again, because of proximity and consistency with parents or family members or your own children. I think that when you’re exposed to someone for such a long period of time, and you see kind of the ins and outs and eccentricities of people, there are things that you choose to like, take in and emulate and want to move forward. Right? That’s, it’s almost like you look for the best in everybody and you take those pieces, and you internalize them and you think, how can I be more like that? It’s not that I want to be my mom. But the best parts of her I’ve learned, because I’ve chosen to.

Jordan
Those are the things you’re intentionally emulating, correct?

Rosanna
So but then I think there are other people who I’ve allowed to influence me and that’s a choice, right? You meet someone and you see something in them. And just like you meet a lot of people write you, you can choose to be closer to someone to start a friendship, to spend more time with them because you see that and you want you want to grow in that way. Like they are.

Jordan
Yeah, I think it does start with admiration and maybe not every case but in a lot of cases where especially if you see someone in real life into you think man they they do this like so well. I wish I could do it that well, and you kind of naturally begin to look at how they do that. Sometimes I’m around a really good storyteller or joke teller, and they’re just making the whole room laugh. And I’m like, man, did I listen to the way that they, they phrased that or the way they even little things that seem maybe probably not really as worthwhile the way they cocked their head when they deliver the punch line or something like that. And then it can be, we can find ourselves like imitating people really intentionally with some of those things that we think are going to help us acquire the same attributes that we admire.

Rosanna
Maybe that’s the case for you. I feel like that’s maybe not the case, for me. It’s not like, like a jealousy thing. Like, oh, I want to be a storyteller. Like I would say, not a jealousy thing, or it’s not like, I want to be like them and I want to copy them. It’s just like, I there’s something that I admire about them and so I aspire to be more like them. But what that means for me, not because I want to do it just the way that they did it, but it’s like, how can I Rosanna as a business owner be more like Suzy sunshine in the way that she’s developing her business? Not because I want to do the same thing as she does, but what can I learn from her to be better?

Jordan
I think some of it starts with imitation. Right? So going going back to musicians, I’m not going to, well, a lot of musicians just like memorize and sing over and over again, their favorite songs from from others. But when they go and write their own song, of course, like the lyrics and the tune is original, but it’s it’s naturally inspired by what they’ve imitated over and over and over again. And so for me, that’s what I say. I wouldn’t say it’s, it’s just imitation for the sake of becoming someone else. And I wouldn’t say it’s jealousy, but I would say that there’s definite admiration of what somebody has going for them, and I am going to imitate them to the extent that I feel like I can adopt what’s working for them into my own delivery.

Rosanna
Okay. And I would agree it’s not that you’re just going to start wearing the same things or doing the same things or saying the same thing. So because no one needs –

Jordan
No one needs a copy, I think sometimes it can start there and then you adapt it to your personality and your strengths and your context.

Rosanna
Well, I will shoot off a question for you, then unless you’ve got something to add.

Jordan
Go for it. Okay.

Rosanna
So then is there a difference between inspiration and influence? Because the title of the podcast is your inspirations and influences. So is there a difference between the two? And if there is like, what is the difference?

Jordan
I guess off the cuff, the way I would distinguish those would be that an inspiration to me seems more emotional. Where somebody has done something and it is – it makes you want to like go on and do something of your own. And they don’t necessarily have to be connected. Like I can go watch a really cool movie at the theater. And many times I feel inspired, but it could be inspired to go and do something totally different that I’m interested in. And sometimes they can be aligned if you see someone doing something very charitable or have high moral character that can be inspiring to yourself, like become charitable or have high character. I think an influence is a little bit more subtle. Because an influence can can push and guide you in certain directions, but sometimes without your knowing. And many times, especially after a long exposure to certain things, you don’t even realize that that’s what you’ve seen so many times. So that’s what you start doing. Okay, so I think there’s intersection there, but that’s the initial way I would distinguish them.

Rosanna
Okay, so then do you think there’s a connection to aspiration? Between inspiration, influence, and aspiration?

Jordan
Yeah, I mean, an aspiration can develop on its own. But I think it is it has life breathed into it when you have inspirations and influences feeding into it. Okay, but how would you frame it?

Rosanna
I mean, similarly, inspiration really could come from anywhere, right? Something can inspire you. Influence, I think is like it drives you, it pushes you. And there’s something more personal to that. And then inspiration and an influence can, Hopefully will make you aspire to be the next best version of yourself. And I think that’s kind of what the heart of this conversation is, is that we need to look at what does inspire us who is influencing us. And we need to make sure that those influences and inspirations are good things that are going to help us as we aspire to the next best version of ourselves.

Jordan
But that’s what I want to ask you about next. So I said like, we mostly look at professionals. And I think that’s what’s most, like publicly accessible is we see someone thriving in their field. And we can see like, who inspired them to influence them to get to that level. But do you think that this is applicable in more personal domains? Some of the things that we’ve already talked about on the show, like is it possible to be just as inspired and influenced in parenting, or in your own health or recreation or personal development? Or marriage relationship?

Rosanna
Oh, I think that’s I think that’s totally applicable. You know, as a mom, I think, for me, I’m pretty honest with like, the kind of mom I am like, I think me and my girlfriends have laughed about this. It’s like, you know, there’s there’s plenty of spoofs and memes on you know Scarymommy on Facebook or other you know, mother groups like which mom are you? Are you the hot mess mom? Are you that type? A mom Are you the you know, all organic mom. Are you the, you know, the mom whose houses a mass, but she’s always playing with your kids? Are you the mom that keeps an orderly house but you know, the kids are, you know. So what’s interesting to me is we have four kids. And so the minute that they go to school, you’re surrounded with all different kinds of moms and families, you know, from the time that they start preschool or any kind of class that they serve at the park district. And so you meet all of these different types of moms. And although we are all different, and although I think moms are always pegging what the other mothers are, so well, if we’re being honest, if we’re being honest, I think, when I meet people, and when I see the way that they like parent their kids and interact with their kids, for me, it’s always like a really big learning experience, where, you know, I can think of certain moms off the top of my head and be like, wow, I’d like to be more like her in this way. Because what I see is I see that it’s an opportunity to connect better with my children in this way or it’s you It gets me to focus in a different way on my kids than I would normally. So it gets me to kind of assess like, where I’m at, where I’m at with the kids what maybe my kids could need from me in a new way, or a new way I can connect with my kids that maybe wouldn’t have dawned on me at first. And so I let them inspire me and influence me.

Jordan
Would you say that that’s something you look for, like, Are you excited about oh, I get to go here. And I’m going to see X number of moms and I can’t wait to see what I learned from them. Or is it just more natural like, I kind of think the kids over here I happen to run into so and so. And as they were talking or as I was observing them, this is just what I I found myself thinking about

Rosanna
I think it’s an it’s a very natural thing. I don’t willingly, like go into things thinking Oh, yeah, I want to talk to everyone who’s there and I’m gonna learn from them. I’m believe it or not, like more reserved, where I kind of sit back and watch and listen, unless they feel really comfortable over time. And so it’s always just been like a natural thing, but those people Who are doing something like new or I don’t want to say like exciting or refreshing, but something that inspires me, I’m drawn to. And so then I seek out that relationship a little further and I look a little closer, and I may choose to spend more time with them. Because I genuinely like them. And because I think that they add value to like my life and the life of my children.

Jordan
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think as parents we’re most heavily influenced by our own parents because that’s just kind of the way you were raised and you find yourself doing a lot of those similar things when you become a parent. But I think and I really like what you’re saying too about looking at the the other parents we have a chance to interact with and gleaming some of the best of from them. And I think this is much more a modern opportunity, but we can learn from parents that we’ve never met just from, you know, social media and from books and from magazines and from podcasts. And I think that there’s so this is my contention is that like, we always talk about in our professional field, who are we influenced by? And what art are we creating? But many times people will say parenting is my most or one of my most important responsibilities. And we don’t find ourselves seeking out, you know, inspirations and influences and, you know, modeling some of our behaviors off of the things that we see working for others, in the same way that we, you know, put on a pedestal in professional realms.

Rosanna
Yeah, I mean, I think the same thing would be true of marriages, right? Like we want it’s important for us to have a good marriage, a strong marriage, one that will last. So who are we following? Who are we being influenced by? Who are we spending time with in terms of other couples that we can also glean from and swap stories and hope to become more like, are we doing enough of that?

Jordan
Right, so I think just going back to my question, like we do mostly look at like professionals and artists. So the question was, to what extent is it applicable and personal areas? And I hear you saying that it’s just as if not more applicable in those areas. So it’s not always something that we talk about as much.

Rosanna
Yeah, I would agree with that statement. I think in when we’re talking about I think in the last episode, or in some of the episodes we’ve been talking about, like personal care and health and wellness, it’s the same thing like, how are you being influenced in the right way by other people. And so sometimes it’s just seeing what they’re doing. And that pushes you kind of to your next level to be better like it maybe hadn’t dawned on you to try this or, like, reconfigure the way that in which you work out or how you structure your routines. But then when you’re able to get that inspiration. You know, that’s maybe like the first step in learning if this person is someone who can also influence you with whether it’s like the knowledge or the education they have in that domain to kind of help bring you up to the next level.

Jordan
And I think from the counterpoint too, we might unwittingly have been exposed or currently exposing ourselves to negative influences where there are certain people who know what they’re creating is maybe not as positive or as healthy or appropriate for us. And it might be worthwhile to recognize that as well and replace what we can see as being a negative influence with something that’s more positive.

Rosanna
Yeah. And I think well, between the two of us, I would say that I am on social media, way more than you are. And so, you know, just thinking about like, what, what are my feeds filled with? And yeah, what am I listening to? Like through social media? What am I listening to on podcasts? You know, what are the things that I’m exposing myself to that it’s kind of like that little bird in your ear? Richard, I’m kind of back there and it’s chirping and it’s chirping, but if it’s always negative, or if it’s always, you know, problematic or if it’s always argumentative, like, who do we become when we have those birds chirping in our ear? We tend to kind of take that in and start to emulate it. Sometimes the things that we continuously hear, then we start to spew No. And so that’s when it can be dangerous.

Jordan
Yeah. So it seems like we’re always being influenced by something. But we have much more control over that, because we can choose what we’re tuning into or tuning out of.

Rosanna
Right? And same thing with what we watch. What we watch influences us, like, we’re so careful with what we let our children watch and when in terms of ratings and content and but just because we’re adults doesn’t mean that because we’re allowed to watch certain things means that they’re good for us, right? You know that we internalize some of those things without realizing them, right.

Jordan
So it’s like influences kind of like you are what you eat. Like you can you can eat as much junk food as you want. But the the influences that slowly but surely, it’s gonna take its toll on your body. And the same thing is true with your mind. You can eat a wide range of things, and slowly but surely, that’s what you’re going to become.

Rosanna
I mean for years, and I think a lot of people read fiction, right? Like, that’s what people do for entertainment. Right now I’m reading books that for the summer are just fiction. But it was what was it like five or six years ago, I like read a nonfiction book for pleasure for the first time looking at business as I was like, starting my own business and what I was doing, and just the way that your mind shifts when you’re thinking about the things that people tell you, you know, it kind of opened up this whole new world. And so this is now like my first kind of like fiction swing and in a long time, but it’s like, I was searching for answers and information and influence and inspiration. And it was like feeding my mind, but it was also like feeding my soul, too. It was like what I felt like my heart needed to be in the right place to continue to like bring my business to the next level. And so that’s a choice to be influenced by these writers and the stories of their business and who they are and who they continue to try and be and how they are going on a road. That some else has paid for them, and now trying to move that forward. And so then what is my role now is to also kind of walk that path and then carry it forward. Yes.

Jordan
What else? Yeah.

Rosanna
Um, let’s see. So if we’re constantly being influenced by what we hear what we see who we associate with, like who was around us, then Wouldn’t that wouldn’t we technically also be an influencer? Yes. And if the answer to that is yes. How should that impact pressure? Right? Yeah. How should that impact us? Just in our, I don’t know daily conversations in our, in our relationships and in what we’re pursuing?

Jordan
yeah. Well –

Rosanna
– that’s a big one.

Jordan
Yeah. And you have to think, what kind of influence or am I so we’re all constantly like bombarding one another with our with our presence and our personality and our art that we bring to life. And are you a positive influencer or a negative influence? Or you know, somewhere in between? Right?

Rosanna
– at the most basic level, I think that that’s –

Jordan
Are you someone that people would want to tune into? Or or tune out? Alright, so I think about that. Yeah. And don’t forget, like, for me, I don’t really think about Oh, like, I wish I had X number of people who were, like, you know, following this this portion of my life or imitating this about me, and I think most people, like don’t think about it, don’t care about that. But I do think that it, it kind of manifests itself in the kinds of relationships that you do have, you know, the things that are important to you and who you are, and the things that you’re creating are, you know, have been absorbed by others. And I think that that kind of comes back to you in what others are giving to you. And, you know, I think that we should always be conscious of just being our I mean, our best selves in the domains. And if people like it, then I think we have an opportunity to build into one another. And if people don’t like it or don’t care, you know, then I think that’s just something that fades away.

Rosanna
Yeah, and I think there’s kind of like that, like, tried and true. Like you can, you can tell yourself or other people who you are, but other people will decide for themselves who you are based on the kind of person you are, what you say and what you do, and what you continue. What you continuously do, too.

Jordan
I think you could, probably and I think about this with kids, too, like you can sit down and you can explain very carefully, like what your values are and what you expect of them. And they’ll they’ll hear you, but they’re also watching you on a day to day basis. And so I think one phrase that we’ve heard from time to time is that like who you are is caught rather than taught. And I really like that because the way that we influence someone is probably really hard to sit down and explain and categorize. So it’s like it might be difficult for an artist to or musician to sit down and carefully delineate their style, it kind of transcends that sort of definition, yet it can still be absorbed by someone else. And so I think just in the way we live, like there is I do call like living like in an art, because we are we are creating something original and beautiful, and the story that that we each tell. So is that a story that is compelling and has virtue in it that is going to other people who are looking for the positive are going to gravitate towards? Or is it a dry story or a negative story that would probably recede, you know, behind things that are more important for others.

Rosanna
So really, what this kind of stems back to is like your values, like who are you? What do you stand for, and then how long Is it that you’re creating a life around those things? Can people see those things? Can they hear those things? Can they experience those things from you? Right?

Jordan
Yeah, I think so at the deepest level, yeah. And I think in other ways that it has more to do with, like, you know, personality and style and like going back to teaching, like I can teach in a certain way. And I think that’s rooted in values that I have for students and for education. And, you know, others may observe that and try to, you know, emulate their own teaching based off of what they might observe. And I think that they hopefully would absorb some of those positive values. But, you know, there’s also I think, and personality, like, you know, stylistic approaches that they may try to adapt as well to emanate those those values and create similar effects.

Rosanna
And I think that’s true of any profession. Okay, so let’s talk about being a wedding coordinator, right. You can hire any number of wedding coordinators and we will really technically do the same thing for you. We will help you create a timeline, we will make sure that the timeline is followed, we will coordinate vendors and make sure like, we will all do those same things, but it’s the way in which you carry those out, right? Like the way you make people feel as you’re doing them the way that you can orchestrate something. It’s, it’s in the art of what it is that you’re doing. You know, same thing with people in the fitness industry, right? You can go to any gym and have any instructor or personal trainer like they do the like the things to protocol, right. They’ve learned those things, but it’s the finesse in the way in which they do them their style, right, how they, how they manipulate, like, the knowledge to inspire people to motivate people to to build things. Yeah. Pretty good. Do you have any more questions? Mine are pretty basic.

Jordan
Yeah, no, I have questions. We actually answered each of those. And, you know, I think it’s good to get into the takeaways, but I mean, obviously like we’re mainly talking about the the way that we are influenced by others and a number of domains. And I think just raising our consciousness of where that’s taking place and also how we might be on the giving end of that as well to our children and to the people who witness our life.

Rosanna
Okay, so let’s go to takeaways then. Alright, so the first one I have as if we have people who inspire us, then chances are we have something to aspire to. And what we’re always aspiring to be, is the next best version of ourselves. So if that’s personally as a parent, as a spouse, right, as a sibling, as whatever, whatever personally means to you, but also our craft, how we do what we do in our businesses and in our professions. So it’s not just business as usual. It’s how our interpretation of that brings life to others. So I think that’s number one. So like, who inspires you I think we should take an inventory of those people who inspire and influence us. And if you don’t have someone in a major area of your life, maybe it’s time to ask actually start looking for those people different than a mentor just someone who’s influenced you can’t –

Jordan
You don’t have to sit across the coffee table from them and have them grill you with questions or challenges. It’s finding, finding the positive people that you want to be like whether it’s in a personal professional capacity.

Rosanna
Okay? Number two, inspiration and influence is different than education. So inspiration and influence happen based on like exposure and or proximity. So absorbing the way other people create or how they do what they do. It’s not learning, like, how to play the piano. It’s not learning. You know, how to change a diaper, like learning to be a mother, in a certain way is past the technical aspect of anything, right?

Jordan
Yeah, you can read a technical manual and a lot of different concepts, but who, who’s creating the art the feeling that you’re trying to also create? Okay, yeah, and I I think we’ll do episodes down the road that will talk more about that education side of things as well, because that plays an important role. You can’t you can’t really go on to create something magnificent, if you don’t know, without a knowledge of how to do as well either. So I think that there’s an interplay between those.

Rosanna
Alright, so number three is you are the company you keep. So take a look at your personal circles and your professional circles. Who are your friends? Do they inspire you to be better? Do they inspire you to dream to stretch to grow? Do they challenge you? You know, if they don’t, maybe it’s time to you know, start looking at those people who you do see that do give you a little bit of inspiration who seemed to influence you and start gravitating towards those people. You know, there are some friends that are forever and family is forever but that does not mean you can’t bring in new people. Right?

Jordan
I would even expand the definition of company to being like not just friends and family but like you referenced earlier. Just whatever we’re exposing ourselves to I would say like the shows that we watch the music We listened to the podcasts that we listened to the things that we read, all of that is the company that we’re allowing access to our mind and our psychology.

Rosanna
Okay, which is kind of my fourth point. So you jumped the gun a little bit, but I think that’s a great segue –

Jordan
You’re welcome. For that seamless transition.

Rosanna
You are the company you keep, but are you being selective enough with who or what you’re exposing yourself to? So think about it social media, podcasts, books, movies, music, the more frequent and consistent the more you’ll be influenced by them. So is it time to do a little spring cleaning, we’re a little late for spring. We’re well into the summer, but maybe it’s time to go through those feeds and clear out some of the junk, right, like I will tell you that I am a longtime bachelor fan and lover the last couple years, I’ve had no time for that. But you know, I found myself like following you know, former bachelor and bachelorettes and I was thinking –

I’m not 20 anymore. You know, I’m not gonna I’m 40 like, those are not the people I want to follow. So who do I want to follow and be in search of those new new things? You know, we all shift, we all change, we all grow. So maybe maybe it’s just time to find inspiration and influence in new ways as we continue to grow and change.

Jordan
Yeah, maybe ways that even make us uncomfortable. Or challenge us with something new, like a new idea or new perspective and, but something that still like, fuels our own self growth and helps us you know, add to the, to the palette of life with which we’re going to paint the portrait that will become.

Rosanna
The palette of life.

Jordan
But no, put it on the list of amazing metaphors brought in by this podcast.

Rosanna
There you go.

Jordan
All right. Well, thank you so much for tuning in once again to episode nine. And we hope that you do take some time to consider some of the influences and inspirations that you have in your life. If you’d like to explore a little bit more about what Rosanna and I have to share please check out the relentless pursuit podcast calm. And you can even subscribe to our email list and get a free gift when you do. And please leave us some comments and some raving reviews on whatever podcast platform you happen to be listening to. We are excited to be bringing you more episodes in the near future as we close out season one. And so we hope you enjoyed this one and we look forward to speaking with you more. Thanks for listening

Rosanna
Welcome to episode eight of the relentless pursuit podcast. This one is titled family road trip. This week, we’re gonna switch it up a little bit. We’ve had some Q&A formats and – Yeah, some fun interviews now. So now we’re gonna switch it up. And we wanted to give you guys an opportunity to get to know us a little bit better. For those of you who don’t know us. I know that we do have a lot of friends and family that are listening and watching these on YouTube. But we do have some people who don’t know us as well. So we thought what better way to get to know us is to maybe share about us a little bit about our story a little about who we are, and we thought maybe the best way to do that would be to capture it by retelling the story of our family road trip that we just took for the last two weeks.

Jordan
Yeah, we were I would say really fortunate to have some time set aside that we could go on a family road trip. Each year we like to take a little pilgrimage down to Texas. I have some family down in Texas that at least once a year, we like to load up the kids in the family van and swing down and say hello. But our trip morphed a little bit more this year. We’ve been at home for a long time now. And one of the things that we wanted to make sure that we took advantage of is summertime, and some of the time that we have available to try to do something a little bit different. And we were disappointed like many other families when we realized that the local pool, which we usually live at during the summer would be closed and many other favorite venues and favorite activities. And so we were trying to think how can we look back at the summer of 2020 and still have some some favorite memories and experiences that are going to be cherished by us. So we were looking at Our trip down to Texas to visit family. But we also received a very kind invitation from some friends of ours who live out in Colorado to spend a short time with them as well. And so I kind of started dreaming of this, you know, quasi-cross-country road trip, you know, the National Lampoon style where we would leave from here and spend a pretty significant amount of time on the road and away from home and with friends and with family, and doing and seeing some things that we don’t normally get to do all while still navigating a pandemic environment and trying to do it in a in a safe but a memorable kind of way. So I pitched it to Rosanna. Hey, I have a great idea. Let’s spend hours and hours on end in the family minivan with all the kids. And it didn’t take too much convincing, but there was definitely some logistics that needed to be laid down to make sure that it worked. So what ended up happening is was that we decided we would leave home, we would drive to Mount Rushmore and visit that and then spend some time after that, driving down and spending time in Colorado. And then from there we would we have several friends and family members in Colorado. We try to visit as many of them as we can, and then head down to Texas, spend some more time with my family there and then head home after that’s all said and done.

Rosanna
So all together it was it was – two full weeks, 14 days over 3300 miles in a Dodge Grand Caravan with our four kids, to which many people who we and we kind of made this decision maybe what seven days out from when we left. We just kind of were like well, okay, let’s let’s dig in. And so when people heard what we were doing, they thought we were a little crazy.

Jordan
It’s everyone’s first reaction like with all your kids, and you’re driving.

Rosanna
Yeah. So when he pitched the idea, he said it didn’t take much money. He often has big ideas, great ideas to some that are not so great. But I did he pitched this idea 14 days: South Dakota, Colorado, Texas, the kids the car the miles and I just kind of like – slow blink. Oh, okay. All right. And then I just said, why not like, what else do what else are we doing? What else do we have going on? And we’ve been fortunate to have that time in that space now. So it really was the perfect opportunity to gather our group and go, and one of the great things about being together for so long – we’ve just celebrated our 14th wedding anniversary, and the launch date of our podcast, and knowing each other for almost 22 years – is that I trust him. And so trusting that we could do this and we could do it together is just it’s great.

Jordan
There are some logistics to make this happen. But really like it’s well within our reach. And there’s a convenient kind of division of labor. And after doing many things together over the years, a lot of it kind of falls into place as we assume responsibilities for different things to make it happen.

Rosanna
Yeah. And I think that’s the biggest thing about this trip is that he, you know, he came up with this idea. And then we kind of, we know each other’s strengths. So I know his strength is he’s going to navigate it, he’s going to get us there, he’s gonna have that all planned out. I couldn’t even tell you which direction east is from where I’m currently sitting. So like, that is not in my wheelhouse. That is not something I’m good at. And I trust him to take care of that. And he got us there flawlessly. And so but I also know that means that packing up six people for 14 days in multiple climates, was going to be a challenge. We had, you know, there’s six of us in the car so it’s not like we have extra room to stuff stuff because we have a lot of people.

Jordan
Rosanna likes this sort of challenge too. So it’s like alright, babe, here’s what we’re here’s the here’s the task. We’ve got six people actually X number of days you get two suitcases and like one duffel bag and a cooler and this yeah and this much space and she’s like okay, it sounds like would you compare it to like one of those reality TV shows.

Rosanna
Like survivor you know, it’s like alright what will we take? What will we leave? What are my luxury items like what can we fit? You know who has what at what house Can I borrow a blow dryer my taking it. My big thing is always shoes. Jordan travels in one pair of shoes I need like nine pairs to go. But we creatively made a plan for you know, getting all of these warm weather, hot weather, cold weather, layers, sunscreen, bug spray, and then that added layer of face coverings, gloves, toilet seat covers for public restrooms, masks, I mean, antibacterial, I mean, we were stocked and we planned and he trusted me to handle all of that. And so then even loading the car like I load it so I know where it is and I’m constantly shuffling and reshuffling clothes – the clean clothes, the dirty clothes.

Jordan
It’s my job to carry the suitcases out.

Rosanna
And it’s my job to kind of make sure everybody has what they need.

Jordan
But I like this too, because I don’t think I mean, we’re really not just talking about the road trip here. But this is is sort of a microcosm of a lot of the experiences and, and tasks and goals that we set for ourselves. So it’s like the other road trip of life. And what are some of the lessons from this particular experience that also pertained to, you know, some of the bigger things that we’re doing a more day to day basis as well?

Rosanna
Yeah, I mean, and for us, for our family to work. It’s always been that we need to be doing it together. We always have to be a team and what’s nice is we kind of know where each other’s strengths and weaknesses are. And so where one kind of falters the other one picks up.

Jordan
Yeah, and I don’t know if it’s good or bad, but like if so, like I handle all the driving and directions, but the moment you tried to give me directions for like something specific, it just like we ended up going the wrong way. Then I’m getting upset. Just pull over and look at the map anyway. Just because like the way we, we, the way you read that and the way you communicate that is just like just kind of off my chart of how I process that. And then same thing with any of the suitcases – like I went into one and I was looking for something for the kids, and you’re like, “It’s not in this one that’s that one, you know, you’re gonna mess this up,” but, and those kind of became like almost our strict domains. And if we interfered with the other person’s, it’s like, we were gonna mess it up. And sometimes, like, we got a system just trust the system. And let me let me handle this because this is my job. And you know that I think there were other smaller things like that, too. Like even just looking at the financial end of it. I’m like, looking at how many gas stops we’re going to need to make and how much cash should we have on hand and how much should we expect this to cost overall, is that even feasible? And then I know you had like other components, even even during the trip as well, that you’re just managed often without, you know, anyone’s knowledge of it and it just fit together.

Rosanna
But I think that’s what’s great about having a partner having a teammate in it is that you can complement each other, right? We were staying in the homes of other people. So even just taking a moment to you know, bring thank you cards with us and you know, writing a thank you card and placing it you know, it’s those little things that like I would think of that you might not or that you would think of and that I wouldn’t, like planning gas stops or rest stops like totally off, you know, my radar but you’ve got it covered.

Jordan
Downloading kids podcasts or silly songs to keep them somewhat entertained.

Rosanna
Just the different ways in which we were able to help our kids have a good experience and what roles we play in the creation of the family roadtrip were important.

Jordan
What’s next?

Rosanna
Alright, what’s next? Um, so let’s talk a little bit more about our trip. Well, I mean, so we left here. We left here bright early on a Sunday morning at like, just like before 6am.

Jordan
Yeah. And kids were all very excited. And I think they forget like one thing I’m reminded of is that they forget how bored and uncomfortable they are in the van for long periods of time, because they are and they’re not complaining the whole time. But by the time you get to the destination, they’ve forgotten all about being on the road. And so they look forward to the next time that they have a chance to like be on the roads. They really like kids tend to remember the and I think it’s true for all of us, they tend to remember the more positive things and the boring or even the negative I think just fades away.

Rosanna
Yeah, we left and what what’s their first exciting thing is that anytime we leave for a road trip, we stop and we get some Dunkin donut donuts and that’s like their breakfast in the car and like they look forward to that and then they’re looking forward to mom buys all of these snacks for the road trip that we don’t normally have. All about the snacks and we don’t have an entertainment center in our car. We don’t have DVD players or whatever. But we do pack an iPad and attach it to the back of a seat, but they have to ride I mean we really make them sweated out, what was it like eight hours or at least a day before we let them watch a movie? Yeah. And so we have,

Jordan
But they weren’t begging for one either. They were looking outside, they’re talking to each other. We were randomly starting roadtrip games, listening to goofy songs, taking naps. I mean, there’s so much to do! My favorite – my favorite was just how often they would be asking you for things and there’s four of them so wonderful. I’m would say I need a napkin and the other one needs to put something in the garbage bag and you’re just constantly like turning around from the passengers.

Rosanna
That was the first five hours of my truck consisted of me turning around I’m just driving around turning he’s you know, he’s got he’s got the helm. He’s driving, he doesn’t hear a thing. I need this. I need this. She touched me. Can we watch a movie? Is it time for another snap? It’s you know, it’s kind of like when you start summer vacation or when the kids were then home like all spring with school and you’re trying to like devise that like system in that plan. And this is how you do it or asking for permission to like, open the windows like all of these things that you really don’t want to deal with. But after the first five hours, they really settled in.

Jordan
Smooth cruise after that. But you know, as we went through the, just the the trip itself. And once we arrived at our destination in Colorado, we get to do some unique things that we are it’s really difficult to replicate in Illinois. And I mean, one of the greatest things I appreciated was that we had a chance to spend time outdoors and but outdoors in kinds of terrain and opportunities to see some things that are just really, really fun and and unique and beautiful. And we had gorgeous weather as well, which I was very grateful for. So it was it’s not like there was some huge event waiting for us at the destination. It was a chance to be with people that we loved, and to do some activities with them and within the location that are a little bit different, but enough to make some memories for that. And, you know, another big thing I noticed too, is that there was really…all of our screen time was drastically reduced – the kids, you know, ours, and we weren’t even really aware of it, because we were having a genuinely good time with one another and with the activities that we were doing. And that’s, that’s worth it. You know, I mean, I think sometimes when we’re in our routines, there’s maybe a reliance or even an over-reliance on screens for information and for work and for entertainment. And it’s not all negative, but it is pleasant to be able to hit the pause button and enjoy not staring at a screen but deriving genuine value from the people that you’re with the activities that you’re doing.

Rosanna
Right, you weren’t checking work email, I wasn’t checking work email. I wasn’t really posting to social media. Most of our drive we went from here to Mount Rushmore, and then Mount Rushmore so South Dakota through Wyoming to Colorado – I didn’t even have service. So I like I couldn’t just…

Jordan
It’s actually a little scary when you’re in middle of nowhere.

Rosanna
Really, there’s nothing. There’s like some tumbleweed. There’s like nothing. There’s just some cows. And you have no service to like, look, even look at a map. Yeah. But like not incessantly checking to see what other people were doing, or you know what was going on in the world. It was just nice.

Jordan
No need to feel productive.

Rosanna
Yeah, it was just nice to like, sit back and get away. And I think that’s something that we try and do every summer is we try and kind of flip the script, flip the schedule, like live outside of our routines, which we thrive on routines as a family, as individuals, but it’s a great time to kind of break that routine as a way to kind of like, dive into something more something unique, something better.

Jordan
Right. And I think we’ve talked about how important it is to value the ordinary. B it’s nice too. At the same time, get it get away from the ordinary and whether it’s big or small. Find a different kind of experience. And in many ways, I mean, at least for me, I know from some of the things that kids have said, like they, that’s whet their appetite for more. I mean, Colorado was gorgeous.

Rosanna
Oh my gosh, the mountains and the waterfalls and the hiking and the butterflies and even just like the animals that are there are different than the animals here and watching our kids, you know, pick wild flowers on a hike for four miles and throwing stones into like a rushing river.

Jordan
That was the big hit of the trip was throwing rocks into water.

Rosanna
Butn we have three boys. So I mean, that makes sense.

Jordan
So but I think some of that translates back to so now is our ordinary, does it have the chance to be disrupted or to modify based on some of the new things that we took time to have an appreciation for? Yeah, gotta go find some water and some rocks.

Rosanna
But I think the other part of being gone and staying with people that we knew, I mean, these are lifelong friends that we’ve had – they were in our wedding, we were in their wedding – they moved away. We haven’t seen them a lot, but even just being able to like reconnect several hours together several days allows for, you know, a new kind of relationship. It’s not that quick relationship where it’s like that quick exchange. It’s not like alright, catch me up on like, you know, everything that’s going on. I mean, we had time to just –

Jordan
We had a lot of time.

Rosanna
We had a lot of time, and you can talk about the things that matter and the things that are on your mind or, you know, tell me more about that. And I think that’s what’s nice by quieting some of the other things is, you know, even just pouring into people a little bit more and seeing where they’re at, good or bad.

Jordan
We’re very grateful for their just there they’re hosting and their – because I know we put things aside to be able to travel but and so they did as well.

Rosanna
And the other thing I thought was also interesting is, you know, spending time with other people in close proximity, like in their house, like what you learn from each other, or what you can observe by being with them. And so them saying, you know, saying things about the way our relationship is with our kids that they would notice that I don’t know that I guess I didn’t think people would pick up on but like even having that like said back to you is kind of like an eye-opening thing

Jordan
Yeah, that’s nice litter like outsider perspective on some of the more intimate nuances of your family that are helpful.

Rosanna
But even how I learned from them while I was there, like, you know, you kind of take it in you think, Wow, I’d like to be more like that. Like you don’t have that opportunity when you’re just in passing, passing or you’re going out for drinks or something like that.

Jordan
Or someone’s highlight reel on Facebook and Instagram.

Rosanna
You get a little bit more about their heart and you know where they’re headed. So I think that was really great, too.

Jordan
Yeah, yeah.

Rosanna
All right. So we had a beautiful time. We saw Mount Rushmore, we hiked. We swam in a lake we were we kayak, we paddle boarded. I mean, we did a lot of different things. Then we headed to Texas, and we got to do some other fun things with family. Our daughter got to go horseback riding and there was some pool time which we’re not going to really get here this time. Summer. You know, that’s our, that’s the highlight reel of our trip, right? If you check our Instagram feed, or even my personal one, like you see, like all of the great moments, but there were some not so great moments.

Jordan
And these tend to stand out a little bit more as well, ironically.

Rosanna
But they stand out like more later, like in the moment, like you’re not really, you know, trucking and you know, thinking that it’s anything important, but you know, they’re unpleasant at the time. And we were more than fortunate. We had no car trouble. We had no one, you know, was injured or there was nothing like that. We were able to stay healthy and safe the entire time. So that’s great. But, you know, we talked about like the first five hours of the road trip of the kids like getting them to settle down. It’s kind of it’s kind of like a circus. Yeah. And they’re, you know, there were like multiple long drives. So there were multiple instances of that our two year old is we were gone two weeks, I think he grew three inches. He popped four teeth, and his vocab doubled. So we were eight hours into a 15 hour drive and I get Mom, I’m done. And then he just starts crying. And I just looked at him and said, Yeah, I’m done too, but we got, you know, several more hours buddy!

Jordan
I had to reassure Rosanna as well as a two year old that there was still a lot ahead of us.

Rosanna
We just gotta buckle up, buckle down and keep going. But one of the things – where were we were we headed to South Dakota?

Jordan
I think we were in Minnesota at the time.

Rosanna
Okay, so we from Illinois, to Wisconsin over to Minnesota, making our way to South Dakota. And our daughter says to us, Mom, I don’t feel so good. And so you know, when they’re little you don’t really know what that means. So I said like, like, your tummy doesn’t feel good. Yeah. Okay, like you got to go potty or like, you’re gonna puke. I think I’m gonna puke. Okay, we’re not even in the first leg of our trip. Someone’s gonna puke. I of course, had you know all of our things in the car. Paper towels out, you know, garbage bags, and like hurrying up opening a garbage bag, put it over her face, and she’s just so I’m turned around in the front seat. He’s on the expressway or the highway, whatever you call it – I’m holding a garbage bag open and she’s just like looking straight at me like, she’s gonna vomit, like, you know, into the bag, like, not into the bag into my face instead of in the bag. And all I could say was, don’t look, I mean, don’t put your head down puke into the bag. Just don’t puke on me!

Jordan
Poor thing she started throwing up right there in the van. And so I’m driving it’s almost as though she’s in my ear and all I hear is her breathing and puking into the bag. And I hear you saying like, look down, don’t look at me look down. And then she’s muttering to me like, can’t we get off the highway? Like, there’s nowhere to pull over right here. So like, sure enough, I finally we get to an exit and I pull over at the first parking lot that’s there. And of course, it’s a strip club, pulling over and and so she like finishes throwing up like in the parking lot of this strip club and –

Rosanna
all into the into the garbage into the bag. Yeah, it was brilliant.

Jordan
All into the bag, a clean experience. And that was the first of a few instances where Unfortunately, she got a little carsick but she rallied really well and we were proud of her. There’s another instance too in Colorado, where the state thing happened. And we’re going through all these mountain passes and weaving up and down. And I remember we had pulled over at some point as well. And as she’s having this unpleasant experience, I’m looking around, I’m like, this is a really gorgeous spot to stop and throw up at you know. Actually, I didn’t tell you this. I don’t think I told you this. But I was, I wanted to prepare a bingo card for our road trip, like a parent bingo card for all the things that could happen on a road trip. And one of the squares that you have the option of putting was going to be the kid throwing up in the car. And that was then there are other squares to with things that had happened, but that that struck me and I regretted the moment that you know, after she was done throwing off that I hadn’t actually finished preparing that bingo card for us to play because after we check it out, I would have checked that box. But that was that’s gonna be something that stands out and we – even she can laugh at you right now as well, because it’s a peculiar kind of incident that stands out and we never really thought about it or prepared for it or anticipated it, but it happened and we have this funny little story that we’ll probably retell on many other future road trips, too.

Rosanna
I mean, there’s a couple others too, like we’ve hiked four miles out up the side of a mountain in Colorado and one of the kids has to poop. Well, what are you gonna do? You know, perfectly well, so outhouse. Yeah, guys, there’s no bathrooms here. So we’re going to have to do it outside and you know, just that that realization and that that like fumbling of you know, you start to sweat a little bit and you’re like, Okay, how are we going to manage this? You know, there’s, you know, or you change a poopy diaper on the hike, and then you got to carry it with you all the way back, you know, so that, you know, there’s you’re traveling during a pandemic, so just you know, how do you get out and you know, manage a rest up and how do you keep your kids safe and like, although there are all of these things that could have kept us home and could have kept us back or could have had us you know, upset throwing your hands up here, you know, throwing in the towel. We have to expect those things. I mean, especially with kids, too, but like, we can’t let those things derail all of the great things and the amazing experience that they’re going to have from the summer. Yeah. And I think that’s, that’s really what’s important.

Jordan
And one of our questions that we asked, you know, before we try something big or small is like, what’s the worst that can happen? And now there’s some pretty like worse things that could happen, you could get in an accident, you could run out of gas in the middle of nowhere. And there’s a lot of middle of nowhere where we were at. And you know, there’s there’s other dangers and I think part of it is anticipating those and planning as best as you can for contingencies that may arise, but not letting those those fears or those doubts or those unknowns overshadow the positive potential in the opportunity that’s there.

Rosanna
And I think that’s what’s great about you is you’re always looking for that positive potential. And okay, yeah, things could go wrong, but we also live in an age where usually those things can be rectified pretty quickly. Right? So I mean, all in all, it was a really great trip. And I think one thing that is not in our outline or notes or something we discussed was, you know, 14 days, all six of us together with, you know, no real separate distinction from our kids during that time. I think, you know, that could be a lot.

Jordan
You mean like us separate…

Rosanna
Separate from our kids like we were in the car together. We went how many hotel rooms? Two hotel rooms. So in two of those situations, I was sleeping in the bed with one kid you were sleeping in the bed with another

Jordan
Two year olds sleep great when you share a bed with them – we recommend it to everybody.

Rosanna
And in one of the places we stayed the pack and play in our room, so just really not being able to like have any distance from our kids, which is obviously not the end of the world or a bad thing but you know, loving each other through that and like finding ways to to just be one-on-one or have a conversation without being interrupted, or you know having some time away to think or plan or work. I think my favorite thing was when I got in the car for the road trip, there was a Ziploc bag that Jordan had has, how many questions were there?

Jordan
I think there were 50 questions.

Rosanna
50 questions that he had typed up, cut up into little strips, they were folded. They were in this Ziploc bag as ways to like, discuss and answer questions and

Jordan
Icebreaker questions – some were deep some weere silly. Some I actually color-coded for I call it nap time only questions, and we actually didn’t pull any of those because none of the kids ever we didn’t we do. Yeah. All the kids never slept at once for us to have what I would consider to be a pretty exciting conversation from one of one of those questions. But yeah, I wanted to, I figured a lot of time that you and I would just be sitting next to each other in the car, and I didn’t want that opportunity to pass without and we could just talk but instead to have some kind of some goofy things to at least get interesting thoughts interesting conversation started.

Rosanna
And I just thought that was so great like how you thought of me before the trip because you didn’t tell me that you were doing that I had no idea. And then so when there was a lull and the kids were quiet, or there was a movie on or they all like, randomly passed out, or some of them passed out and someone was reading, we would just pull one from the bag. And some of them were, like, hard and, like really thoughtful, and some of them were silly, and I was just like, you know, it just is a very small way to show that you care. And that like our time together is important too. And even though it’s not us on a beach in Mexico, which I dream about all the time, and that I you know, ask for every three to four weeks, when’s the next time you think we can you know, vacation alone together. It means a lot. And so I thought, I thought that was really great.

Jordan
Oh, we got to make the most of those times and those opportunities. So like we said, this is really not meant to just summarize a fun family road trip, but it’s meant to be be thinking of some of those experience as a bit of a microcosm or an analogy for what I say – it’s kind of lame – but like “the road trip of life,” and both the travel and the destination into the activities into the people and the values along the way. And so when we’re kind of living out life, I feel like in some ways we are in a vehicle together. And it’s up to us to develop that teamwork to find the activities and the memories to find even the inconvenient things that are truly the memory makers and the things that we end up laughing about and enjoying later on and, and make the stories that we retell, you know, chance to connect and get away from screens get away from work, and I think that there’s a great opportunity to do that within a 14-day roadtrip period. But a lot of that translates into how we try to facilitate just the day to day life. And the long term journey that we’re all on.

Rosanna
Yeah, and I, you know, I think it was just a breath of fresh air for all of us because even coming home, I just feel like things are a little bit different. I feel like the kids, we were all home together before this for a while, but the kids seem to have clicked in a new way. And you know, they’re a little bit older, and they’re a little bit different than we left. And there is something that was so special about it that I’m, I’m so glad that we did it.

Jordan
Yeah, I think it makes you appreciate what you come home to more. And also, you know, you’re you’re, you’re changed by a new experience. And I feel that that I’m looking forward to more new experiences ahead as well.

Rosanna
Yeah. So thank you for listening to our story. I know it’s, you know, nothing super riveting are off the charts. But I think, you know, talking about tackling life as a team, you know, expecting the unexpected, preparing the best that you can, and embracing the here and now are all things that we need to continue to do to be successful.

Jordan
Absolutely. So you can check out and learn a little bit. More about this show from our show notes, you can find those at therelentlesspursuitpodcast.com. And you could also tell us about any of your favorite road trip or vacation experiences that you may have had as an adult or maybe even as a kid. We’d love to hear about those. You can check out these episodes, as well as bonus content on YouTube. And we’d love to hear any feedback or any reviews that you may have as well. If you haven’t yet, please leave us a five star rating and we’re looking forward to sharing the rest of our Season One episodes with you in the near future. But thanks for listening everybody. Goodbye.

Jordan
Hello, and welcome to episode seven of the Relentless Pursuit Podcast. Today’s title is “How Scheduling the Things That Matter Change our Lives.” And that’s kind of a big title, big promise in that. What we want to talk about is not just about scheduling, I think scheduling sounds kind of trite, kind of perfunctory. Like we all have a calendar. We all schedule things to some extent, but what we’re talking about specifically is making sure that we are very intentional and very conscious about what we are choosing to put on that schedule. And specifically scheduling values into our days and into our weeks and not just commitments, not just kind of run of the mill daily predictable kinds of things that are going to happen one way or another.

Rosanna
Yeah, you might have heard the phrase that the days are long, but the years are short. And so it seems like our days are busy with whether it’s work or kids or you know, even extended family and community commitments,

Jordan
But just like housework, or you know, some day to day responsibilities that fill in the gaps.

Rosanna
But then when you look back at the year, what you find is that it’s passed you by and maybe you didn’t find room for those things that you say mattered. And so today is really all about not just filling your days with the predictable things, the things that you have to do or that you should do to keep your house running smoothly, or your work commitments or even your kids sports schedules, but it’s really looking at the values that you personally find important to you, that you and your spouse, find important, and what your family finds important.

Jordan
I think that’s the challenges how do we how do we get to those things? Because there’s, I think a lot of things that we’d say like if I only had the time. And one question I’ve asked myself is, what would I do if I had two hours more every day? Like, we all want more time, we can’t make more time. So how do we make some space for the things that really do matter to us we want to continue to give attention to?

Rosanna
And that’s actually something that we asked ourselves this past year is, if we had two more hours in the day, what would we fill our time with? And it wasn’t that we added two more hours to our day, but we started orienting our day in such a way that we found those two hours within the scope of the day.

Jordan
So we want to give you some examples of some things that we’re talking about some things that Rosanna and I have tried that have worked. And there’s other things that we’ve tried that haven’t always worked as well, but I think the important is trying and realizing what matters and making some space for that. So one example that we kicked off, I think it was back last October last November was, we didn’t really come up with a name for it – it’s Monday nights. And one of the things we recognized was that we could go through an entire week, and most of our conversations were okay, like you’re gonna take this kid to this practice on this night and I’ve got this commitment on this other night and, and just kind of that management kind of conversation. And we really wanted to spend more quality time together and have like actual conversations and we didn’t want to wait for an opportunity to like go on a date night where you know, we get the babysitter, or whoever that may be, and then we escaped to, you know, a bar and finally sit down with the drinks and we just wanted to make time for something a little bit more quality. So what we decided to do was that on Monday nights, we at nine o’clock after all of our kids went to bed, we would sit down the couch or at the table. And as though it were a date night and we were somewhere more impressive, we would take probably anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour each week and really just use that as a time to connect. And I think I started there’s even like a script that I started. Remember those questions, or those sentence starters at the beginning? We didn’t always stick with that. But that was one thing that we scheduled and I literally wrote it down the calendar, “J and R time,” nine o’clock Monday night on our calendar and that way, we knew that this was something that was scheduled and was never a question of, hey, what are we doing Monday night? Are we going to, you know, flick on the TV until we can’t keep our eyes open? Are we going to work? And we knew the answer to that was no. The answer was already filled in for us that we would be spending that time together.

Rosanna
And it almost seems silly that we would have to do that but..

Jordan
Right it seems obnoxious!

Rosanna
Right like oh, we can only spend time together on Monday nights at nine o’clock. But what was good about that was that we intentionally looked at our schedule, and our calendars and thought, you know, Monday nights are pretty open. And so instead of trying to find time where we don’t have it, let’s look at where we do have some time. And let’s build in something that matters. And for us, it was our relationship that like now, four kids in, you know, their from ages 10 to two, life is busy. So like, how do we continue to connect just past handing kids off to one another or you know, running out with friends or whatever the situation may be? It’s how do we dig in, and it’s not just a like a fleeting conversation about what we need from Costco. And so that’s why those I think those sentence starters is what we started with because it’s like, Okay, well, how do you how do you like kind of like, take a step back and slow down, and like, dig in with each other. And so I think, I mean, one of the sentence starters was “I’m really excited about…” or “Right now I’m not so feeling great with…” and you know, just sharing things. We’re excited about sharing things that we were unsure about or scared about. And it just gives another level of vulnerability within our relationship where we get to that that point where, yeah, we’re friends. And we’re, we’re together and we want to be together. And we need that to continue to build into each other.

Jordan
Right? So it’s I mean, and that wasn’t the only time that we spent talking to one another throughout the week, but it was certainly a reliable time that we can do it. Another example was something we started a few summers ago. I didn’t have to work on Fridays, and Rosanna didn’t have to work on Fridays, typically. And so we set Fridays aside during the summer as family fun Fridays is what we eventually called it.

Rosanna
These are pretty famous with our friends, because my friends even asked me Oh, it’s Friday. We’re doing Family Fun Friday, what’s going on? Like, let me steal that idea. So I can do it next week with my family.

Jordan
Yeah, yeah. And so it’s nothing extraordinary. But it was a day like spending some quality time and making memories with our kids while they’re at this age was another value that we wanted to make sure that we pursued and summers are filled with fun and we were doing a lot of fun family things throughout the summer in particular. But on Fridays we especially set aside to go and i would i would say like go make a memory go do something that would really only do probably that one time during the year. And so we can describe these I think maybe a little bit more in a future conversation or blog post but in general, we set aside probably I would say like 10 Fridays throughout the summer, one after another to go and just do something that was a little bit different. But the the catch with that was that we weren’t… I think the perk of that was that there there are no screens involved. We weren’t you know, watching movies or attached to our phones during that time. It was just a chance to really get away from any other distractions and go enjoy something as a as a family unit.

Rosanna
And I think part of that was it was intentional time to get away from that feeling of surviving as a family. Like trying to entertain them all summer long or trying to keep everybody happy, but really was rooted in Us thriving as a family that we were all together having fun, we’d let the kids help us come up with the list of activities. And then we’d kind of schedule them on the calendar based on like, availability, and you know, even weather and all of that, but it was, it was a time that we were all just like thriving. We were happy, we were our best selves, knowing that like we were together and we were in it, and the kids look back on those things even now from last year and love them. And you know, as we continue into this year too obviously, things are a little more limited. But it’s really just like that purpose of our kids are important to us. So is our time with them. So how do we make not everyday the same?

Jordan
We have several more examples here. We did schedule summer date nights last year, which we really liked. With morning routines who could probably do a whole show just on morning routines and what that’s done for us. But with one thing I wanted to talk about too was, this was especially important for me like the way it was facilitated. But Saturday morning work times. I have – and Rosanna can attest to this – that I have always like little things that I’m working on. And they might be directly connected to work and career, they might be just kind of little pet projects or hobbies or kind of side gigs or whatever. And I enjoy just getting an opportunity to work on those. And so again, not too long ago, we decided that Saturday mornings – I’m pretty early riser so as early as I wanted to Saturday mornings – I can leave the house and I would usually end up at Starbucks. Just spend a few hours there like giving whatever was on my mind some attention, a few hours of attention and it probably home by like nine or 10 o’clock and then would enjoy the rest of the day. But that was very helpful for me when you helped facilitate that, because I had a kind of this itch to be working on some of these these things. And I would be able to have the space that I could comfortably focus on that without feeling like it was intruding on anything else that we wanted to focus on.

Rosanna
And I know you you even said this to me at the time, like, Oh, I’m so thankful that I was able to get out this morning for three or four hours and take care of this, almost as if it was like a hardship for me. And it never felt like that. You just had communicated this need that you had to work on some of these projects on a Saturday morning. And that was something that I could easily help facilitate. I’m at home in the morning with the kids. You know, we go through the morning routine of getting ready and breakfast and cleaning up and, you know, whatever it is that we needed to do. When he came back, he was happy he was fulfilled. And he didn’t kind of have that weight on his shoulder of something that you know, he wanted to be doing that he’s thinking about like at Saturday at four o’clock that he’s never gotten to. And now he’s feeling a little resentful, and now he’s not enjoying me or the kids as much as he needed. And to me, that was a good feeling that like, he could feel productive, he could feel supported, he could feel like he had the freedom in his life to be who he wanted to be and accomplish something as long as I could help him. And so, I mean, you know, three out of four weeks, you know, for the most part, probably four out of four, you could go and then if I had something that didn’t allow it, then we worked around it and maybe switched it to Sunday afternoon, or Friday night, or whatever it was, but I think it was all about you looking at what you needed and communicating that and then us finding a spot in the square calendar.

Jordan
So we have a few other examples too. One is, you know how we’ve chosen to make time for friends and make sure that that was something that we were trying to focus on. Family dinners is another one that I think well you have a great blog post about and I think we can put talk through a little bit more, even just in general, like family traditions, I think we’ve developed quite a few of ours, just over the last few years. And, you know, those are some things to look forward to, usually more annually as well. So all of those are just examples just to give you a little bit of a flavor of what we mean when we’re talking about scheduling things that are valuable to us. So if we were to really talk about what our values are, hopefully you can hear some of our hearts in these conversations where we value our relationship with each other. We value our role as parents, we value our other family relationships or relationships with our friends, our careers, ourselves. And, you know, we can’t, I don’t think we can feasibly pay attention to all those things all the time and think we’re doing well. But we recognize that if we don’t pay attention to any of them, then an entire year may pass us by or more, and we realized that we’re not living up to some of those values as much as we would like.

Rosanna
And I think part of that is knowing we have to figure out what works and what fits now, and then reassess along the way. Where we’re at now is very different than where we were three years ago. And so what we’ve chosen to pursue and how to pursue it has changed even in those three years. So it’s not something that you’re locked into forever. It’s just something that you have to, once you get to a point, you’re thinking, something’s not working, or we need to reassess our values and what’s important, then you make that shift. And I think the other thing too, is that we’re all always going to be busy, we just live in a time and in a place where we’re going to be busy. But instead of wearing our badge of busyness, we look at what’s important, and reassess, and kind of reprioritize what we really need to or should be doing.

Jordan
Right. And I think it’s important to distinguish, too, that these are not productivity hacks. This doesn’t make us more efficient, and I don’t want to misrepresent it in that way. This is really about making sure that we’re building in specific space and time for the things that we really do want to continue to invest in.

Rosanna
Okay, so let’s talk about what this has done for us. Not just scheduling things, but scheduling the things that matter and how that’s helped kind of change our lives. Just we feel more positive, right. And we just feel like life is full, and we’re getting what we want out of it. I think the first thing is that we can count on something important taking place. So if we look at our nights together, it’s like I can count on that, like, I get to be with you on Monday nights. And then that’s something that I look forward to. It’s something that I treasure, and it’s something that is important to me. So I think, you know, that’s part of it with our kids with family dinners. They know that that’s going to happen at 5:30 most nights of the week. And it’s a place where they can trust that we’re all going to be together they can share what’s on their mind. And you know, that just that breeds trust. They can complain about their vegetables, it’s something that they can rely on. And I think as a family that helps all of us thrive instead of just survive,

Jordan
Right. And instead of just like passing by one another, and kind of doing our own thing, or just managing where, you know, there’s there’s more intention to the way that we gather. One thing that I think it helps too, is that like, if you if you know that there’s something important that has a time and a place and you kind of like you said, like, you know, what’s going to happen, I think that that gives relief to the other times during your day or during your week that that isn’t happening. So I know like, with my work example, I know that if there’s something that I want to work on, I already know that there’s time set aside for that. So I don’t have to feel like I have to wear that on my shoulders or that I have to like claw for that it just I know that there’s space for it and then leading up to it. And then afterwards, I’m more free to focus on other things, whatever they may be.

Rosanna
Okay. The third thing we have is if you miss it, at least it’s on the schedule, and you can continue to get to it. And I’m not even – I mean, I see the point there. But now it’s kind of dawning on me that when it’s on the schedule, I feel more committed to it.

Jordan
It’s much more likely to take place.

Rosanna
Correct, because I look at and it’s like, okay, from today, I know on the calendar tomorrow, I’ve got to work out at 730. And so because it’s there, like, I’m, you know, I tell I’m loyal to a fault. Like, I’m like, I’ve made that commitment. Like, I’m going to do it so I can cross it off my list. And so it used to be that the calendar that I utilized was just like a calendar and it had a box and it was empty, and it just had the date. And now my calendar is set up where it’s got almost like an hour breakdown. And so like I’m able to kind of like more strategically place the things that are important in my life on there. And then I can see the patterns of great I have this block of time empty and so I’m gonna devote that to like the kids and our next project with them or you know, whatever it is, but when it’s there and I see it like I’m committed to it and it gets done. When I just say, yeah, sometime tomorrow I’m gonna work out like, you know, like, yeah, maybe I’ll do it later. I’ll do it later. Like you kind of keep pushing it until you’ve pushed it completely off the calendar and because it’s never really been on the calendar.

Jordan
Or like me, I can be the king of excuses sometimes. So it’s like, like, you know on Dude Perfect. They have those stereotypes with Mr. Excuses. And then when you listen to it, they’re really lame excuses, but they’re also very common excuses that at least I’ve used to get out of, you know, doing something that I’m maybe not particularly in the mood for. But once you are committed to it, then you find the you know, the energy and the attention that you can give to it. But I don’t want anyone to think that this is this this works perfectly either, because like we’ve we’ve scheduled our Monday nights, but I think a strength of it is that we’ve set aside every Monday to do that. And most Mondays that happens, but realistically, there’s some Mondays where it’s nine o’clock and it’s been a long day, and one of us is already passed out and at least we’re like, Well, okay, like, it doesn’t have to happen today, we would like it to, but at least it’s on the schedule for next week. So we can I mean, we could always move it to the next day or whenever it’s convenient. But at least you know that it’s something that’s consistent enough that if you miss it here and there, it’s not going to kill you.

Rosanna
But what it does do is it tells each other that it’s a priority. And then even sometimes it will fall through the cracks. And then you could think I totally

Jordan
And then you could think, I’m totally drained today, but it’s Monday night, so I’m going to…

Rosanna
Yeah, there’s six more days this week. So maybe let’s push it. That’s good.

Jordan
Yeah. Okay. So we’ve kind of described our approach to this and some of the things even within the past year that we’ve tried that have really worked for us. And we know that that’s not going to be identical for everyone else. Everyone else has their own values and priorities and ways that they’re going to make space for it. So just wanted to give you a picture of maybe some things that can start your own conversation. But as you do that, we do have a few recommendations of things that might help you along that path. So the first recommendation is –

Rosanna
Or you could call it a tip. Tips or you know, recommendation seems very like recommendations, evaluating you as your boss, but a tip, a tip that might work for you.

Jordan
Here’s a tip. Here’s a tidbit, a nugget, if you will. We first you know, it really helped us to sit down and we actually did this on our own. And we’ll do this somewhat regularly too, just get to sit down on our own and figure out what is important to us. What do I want to make time for that I’m not currently? And there were a number of things when I did this that’s kind of rose to the surface. One was like spending more quality time with you. Another was just my own health, like I always imagined that I can work out and exercise consistently and eat right and I have that New Year’s goal every year. And I’m just like everyone else, like it has its peaks and valleys throughout the course of the year. But I realized that was, you know, something that was important that I hadn’t really made time for. And so just kind of looking through some of the things that mattered that weren’t getting their due attention, I think is the first step and then starting to look at where are the opportunities, maybe that something that is more important to can fit in, so that by the time I get to the end of the month or the end of the year, I can look back and say, Okay, I made time for this. And here’s the progress or the accomplishment or the, you know, just the connections that I was able to make that if I wasn’t as intentional with it, I might not have been able to do.

Rosanna
All right, the second tip, let’s just jump right into that – is that you have to stay on top of what you have to do. So you can make room for what you want to do. And so my role in this family I think I wear many hats, but I’m kind of like the manager, the momager, right? Like I think that’s what the Kardashians called their mom is the momager.

Jordan
I think you’re the you’re the family facilitator like, you yeah, you make family happen.

Rosanna
So in order to do that, right, I have to kind of keep a schedule of like what needs to happen around the house for our family to like survive and thrive and function. Like laundry has to be done or people aren’t getting dressed. Food has to be made, or people aren’t going to eat, like, whatever the case is. So those are the things that I to kind of take a look at. And I do those, I do that like over the weekend for the week to come.

Jordan
So those are some of the things we won’t really call those values. But this is a commitment, like some of the things you just have to do.

Rosanna
Things that I have to do. But in addition to that, it’s you know, what the kids have at school. So anything from hot lunch to library books being due to sports, and events, and all of those things that they participate in, like those are all going on the calendar. So when we look at all of those things, we know where they are, and when they’re going to happen. It kind of helps keep us moving in the right direction, streamlined and everybody knows where everybody is and where they’re supposed to be. And so those aren’t things that I mean that’s something that everybody does, but if we maybe don’t keep those things like organized and prioritized – we don’t know where we are from one day to the next.

Jordan
And it can be very, it can be overwhelming. And you’re just playing catch up, right? You’re being more reactive. And now this is a way for you to be feel like you’re more proactive, like everything’s managed, so then we can focus on some of the bigger things.

Rosanna
But in order for Monday nights to happen, right, I don’t want to be doing laundry from seven to 10 o’clock on Monday nights. So, right, like the value is that I want to spend more time with you. And we’ve committed to a certain time on Monday night. So let me make sure that I’m orienting my day and my schedule to make room for that. And so it’s being smarter with some of those trivial things, and smarter with my work schedule and my work calendar and what I have to accomplish in order to fit that in. And so if those things aren’t streamlined, we can’t do those things. One of the ways we use scheduling as a tool is I mean, we have shared Google calendars, where we share like work things and commitments and where we need to be so that no one scheduled something when someone else has it, we try and work around those. But we have a good old fashioned paper calendar, it’s on a cork board, it’s up there. And what’s great is anybody at any time in our family can like take a look and see like what we have. And it’s teaching our kids to kind of look at the value of like scheduling, and prioritizing and knowing like what comes next. It shows them like what they can look forward to, because it’s already on there. If there was a question, yes, a calendar. You know, we’re leaving on a family road trip in a few days. And so we’ve got kids over there counting the days of how many days until we leave and how many days are gone and, you know, that teaches them something that you’re teaching them how to schedule something, how to use it, how to use a calendar as a tool, and that’s not something that everybody learns. So I think that’s important too.

Jordan
And I think that that’s a perk too, because we just to distinguish from the electronic calendar, like that’s easy. I could take out my phone and plug in any event, but that, to me feels like an extra step. And even though you know we can share a calendar and both contribute to that it, I almost feel like there’s so much that we want to like take that calendar and plus, you know, the kids practice calendar and and make it something physical. And I think that there’s, I don’t always say this with things but I think when it comes to like calendars and scheduling, there’s a perk to having it in a tangible form versus electronic form. At least for us, I mean, and maybe it, it may mean, everyone may not feel that way. But that’s one thing that’s definitely worked for us.

Rosanna
But one thing we use it for too is at the end of the year, so our calendar goes July to June. So it’s always like the kids school year. But what we love about it is we take it down at the end of the year. And now I can go back and flip back to every family fun friday last year. And the kids look at that too. Like we can go back and look at all of the milestones and things that we’ve put on there the things that we’ve scheduled and made time for, and it’s a good way to kind of reassess each year like Gosh, are we doing the things that we said we wanted to do? Are we making time for them and it’s, you know, a beautiful way to or maybe maybe not beautiful, but it’s a good way to then know where you’re headed next, year to year.

Jordan
Now, one thing that I think I briefly mentioned, but I didn’t want to gloss over was, you know, when I talked about like sitting down and figuring out, like, what are the values that I want to make, make sure that at some point, I think it’s good to do that independently, but at some point, it requires a conversation as well, because you might find that your spouse has written down some of the same things. And that opens up an opportunity to figure out where that space needs to be created. And you might find that just as maybe considering some different things that you wouldn’t have thought of for yourself or for them. And so it but it does require a conversation because when you are married and when, especially when you have children, like that does require teamwork. And so it’s not there’s nothing selfish that can take place in that. Because if you’re thinking about, here’s all of my values, now I’m going to spend my time, I think that puts an onus on the other person to you to carry whatever balance remains. And you, I don’t think it’s fair to just make that assumption, but you have to work together to figure out how you are going to facilitate them.

Rosanna
Well, and I think, and to your point, I agree with your point, but you said like, you can’t be selfish, and, you know, want to do all of these things, and your partner be selfish, like, you can be selfish, but you have to communicate and agree that like, Yes, I am going to do this at this time. And have approved selfishness. Because you should be able to have time to yourself to develop yourself to grow as should I. And so hopefully, you’re in the type of relationship where when you communicate that need to your partner, and say, okay, like that’s gonna, in order for you to do this, I’m going to have to like take a step back. And I’m going to have to allow you to do that. And so as long as there’s like that commit commitment of I will allow you to do this and I will support you as long as you know, there’s a trade off. So you can be selfish but agreed upon.

Jordan
Totally agreed. All right. So our last tip is to think in years and not in days. And what we mean by this is that, like, it’s it’s certainly good to think in days. But there’s a broader scope to our lives and not every day can have everything in it. So we want to kind of like what Rosanna was saying, like be able to have a little bit of a broader perspective and broader context for how we’re building values into what we’re doing.

Rosanna
Yeah, and I think the kids see that too, is like with those Family Fun Fridays, like we don’t get those from September through May. We don’t get those because we have to work –

Jordan
We still do fun things from time to time, we’re committed to it over the summer.

Rosanna
It’s something that they can look forward to, and I know you hate the phrase of “seasons”. But you know, within each season there, there are ways to build in traditions and values and consistency, without, you know, having each of those look exactly the same. And so I think that that’s important. And I think it also has to do with like long term goals, whether it’s independent goals that we both have goals we have as a couple or as a family, you know, whether it’s saving towards something as a family, like, you know, even things like that, where, you know, we’re looking at dollar spent daily and how we can, you know, reallocate that to something bigger later on. So you can use the days to put towards a bigger goal, but you know, you have to have not just a tunnel vision for your life and family.

Jordan
Yeah. So one of the things Rosanna and I are curious about are what are the things that you schedule? What are the values that you’re working towards, and how do you facilitate that in a way that works and we’d love for you to reach out and to respond and you can view this podcast on YouTube. If you haven’t subscribed yet, please click that subscribe button and leave us a five-star rating and wherever you listen to podcasts. Please visit our website at therelentlesspursuitpodcast.com. There, you can contact us directly or leave a comment where we have our show notes for today’s show.

Rosanna
Thanks for joining us today. And remember, don’t just schedule the things, schedule the things that matter.

Jordan
Thanks for listening. Bye bye.