Season 3, Episode 7: COVID-19, One Year Later

Rosanna 0:14
Hello and welcome to season three, Episode Five of the relentless pursuit podcast, “The Enneagram and Understanding Yourself.” So, about three years ago, now someone had asked me what my enneagram type was. And I kind of looked at them. And I said, ummm…Yeah, I have no idea what they were talking about. And they talked about the enneagram, which was a type of personality test to kind of help you understand yourself a little bit better, like what some of your traits are, and what your strengths and weaknesses are, for the purpose of kind of growing and understanding how you relate to other people.

Jordan 0:51
That used to be a question sometimes, right? Like, back in the day, someone say, what’s your type? And they were really asking you like, what kind of person you’re attracted to? Right?

Rosanna 1:00
Oh, yeah. What’s your type? Tall, dark and handsome.

Jordan 1:02
Right. So now when someone asks you, what’s your type? That’s not what they’re asking.

Rosanna 1:06
No, they’re, well, they’re asking you about you and your personality. I think like I remember in college, right? There was like types like INJF for like a leadership quality

Jordan 1:14
Like TTMSQR?

Rosanna 1:16
Yeah, something like that. Yeah.

Jordan 1:19
There’s been a lot of like personality tests and waited ways to try to categorize and describe ourselves over the years. So this is one that’s been popular for a really long time. Its origins, I understand are just unknown and ancient, in a sense. But it’s had a popular resurgence over this past generation too.

Rosanna 1:38
But three years ago, and I read the book, and then I was like, kind of learning about my type. And then I remember telling you like, Oh, I think you’re you’re this type. And I think our kids might be that type. And you just looked at me with your kind of Jordan-esque disapproval.

Jordan 1:51
Arrogance, go ahead. Yeah.

Rosanna 1:53
And was like, add that it’s like a horoscope. Like, maybe it’s right, maybe it’s not like that could be true about anybody, and you kind of just brushed it off.

Jordan 2:01
Right. And I do have skepticism about most things that are new. And a friend even reintroduced us to the idea of the enneagram as well. And it was interesting, because that was my reaction as well. Like you can kind of read a description, and it’s relatively easy to write a description that most people can look at and say, Yeah, like that, that fits me. That’s where the popularity of horoscopes comes in. So for fun, just as we get into this episode, I went ahead and I looked up the horoscopes for both of us today.

Rosanna 2:32
Oh, well, that’s fun.

Jordan 2:33
It doesn’t really have much to do with what we’ll get into with the enneagram. But for fun, since we never actually look at our horoscopes, I thought it would be good. So do you want to get yours first? Well, we’ll go with you first. Sure, you are a Sagittarius. Right. So as of today, it says you may be touched by a person.

Rosanna 2:54
Not the kind of touching, you’re thinking.

Jordan 2:55
Oh well, it’s all about how you interpret it. You may be touched by a person who exudes the kind of determination produced by a combination of spiritual and intellectual strength and faith. This is what is meant when people speak of a leader of great integrity, the encounter with this person is likely to inspire you to commit yourself wholeheartedly to some good work, perhaps a charity. So brace yourself, Rosanna, you’re gonna be inspired today.

Rosanna 3:21
Now I’m waiting for someone to knock at the door and inspire great things today.

Jordan 3:27
Alright, so here’s my being a Capricorn have a different horoscope. It says, Have you been lethargic lately? No. If so, today is your wake up call? Oh, good. You will be alert and clear about the task at hand, you understand that your help is urgently needed, and that there’s no time to waste, you can expect to pour a great deal of energy into a single well defined goal today. Okay. Looking forward to that. That might be a first. Okay. So these are these are kind of exciting. They’re, they’re captivating, and in a sense, they’re they, you know, you can take this as personally as you want to.

Rosanna 4:07
Yeah, I mean, I just felt completely confused by hearing it. But if we’re thinking about this, as opposed to the enneagram, which we have been looking at the last few days together, and you getting to know it, you can obviously see there’s a great difference between something that seems rather random and could or could not apply to anyone than what the enneagram is trying to do.

Jordan 4:30
Yes. And so I want to present those horoscopes as a way to just demonstrate to our listeners that the enneagram is different. I would say that I was a enneagram skeptic, in a sense, that’s before I even like looked into it. Once I examined a little bit, I can see that there is substance and value there. Although I think my my view of it now is still a little bit different than yours. And we’ll get into that when we talk about when we talk about our types.

Rosanna 4:56
Well, I think the whole point of it is it’s it’s to help you recognize like patterns in your personality. And it’s really trying to pair nature versus nurture. So like the environment in which you were raised coupled with the unique set of traits that you’re born with. And so right, like what you’re naturally born with, and what I’m naturally born with, maybe similar, maybe different. And those are cultivated different ways growing up. And so, you know, I think we spend a lot of our lives unsure of who we really are. And we talked about this with the stories we tell ourselves where it’s like, this is what people have told you you are, this is maybe the story that you’ve ascribed to based on different experiences. But I feel like in the last two to three years, like I’ve come into my own in understanding a little bit more about who I am, what makes me tick, what stresses me out what I need from people, even what I need for myself. And so things are making more sense to me about like, who I see I am and where I see I’m going. So I feel like something like this can help me feel more secure, in like naming what I need. But also realizing some of my weaknesses, too. Yeah. And so it’s funny, like when I read some of the weaknesses of my type, I can identify with them. And I don’t think that other people may be identified the same way that I do. And so it’s nice to be able to kind of put a name to those things and to understand, and then if you’re reading the book and the types, and you kind of see what my weaknesses are like it helps you understand how to better love me and how to better care for me. And so I think that’s really the whole point of this episode is like, we have to understand ourselves, you know, they say that the most important relationship you have is with yourself. 5-10 years ago, I would have laughed, I’d been like, that’s just garbage. Like That doesn’t even make sense.

Jordan 6:38
It sounds silly, yeah. And I think the way that we we think about this, like nowadays as compared to just say, like a generation ago, or even like when we were younger, you know, where we’re kind of interested in or asking ourselves questions as individuals, but I would even say like culturally to, that we would not have done in a previous era. And so I think that’s in part, like leads to the popularity of the enneagram. And, but I think the popularity can also ascribe to just that it is practical. It’s not the end all be all of how you define yourself, but it is a tool for gaining insight into yourself and the important people in your life.

Rosanna 7:19
So if you’re listening, you know, this is the question I kind of have for you, as we go into this as How would you describe yourself? You know, what are some of the words you would use to describe yourself? You know, do you know yourself as well as, as you say you do? Yeah, right? Or do we look to the people around us to give us a more accurate depiction of maybe who we are? And maybe more importantly, like, Are you the person your dog thinks you are? You know,

Jordan 7:44
That’s a high calling right there?

Rosanna 7:47
Having a dog has changed my life. So that’s, you know, that’s what I got to live up to every day, who does my dog think I am. But before we dive personally into, you know, who we are –

Jordan 7:56
So we’ll both talk about our types.

Rosanna 7:58
– Let me just outline the basic types, and I won’t even define them, but I’ll just give you kind of a broad overview of what it is. There are nine different types. And they say that you’re not going to necessarily fit into just one type, they might say that you might touch upon a couple, but one is your dominant, and then they’ll call like other ones, your wings, your wings, your wings. What do they not say that?

Jordan 8:22
Well? No, I’m just repeating. Okay, your wings – So by wings, you mean like your, your, your, you have

Rosanna 8:30
like a dominant trait. And then you have these other things you kind of like, yeah, like you lean into a little bit where it’s like, you might mostly reside here, but you have traits of these other ones that that stand out that you’re not just a mix of all of them.

Jordan 8:43
So that makes sense and that acknowledges the complexity that that is the human personality. I think I’m going to use the word like “wing” to describe a lot of things like the and I think I sent you this before. So I want to do like what do you what do you want for dinner? Like how about Turkey-wing-cornbread.

Rosanna 9:00
Tacos-wing-French fries.

Jordan 9:02
I would like sex-wing-cuddling

Rosanna 9:05
Oh, okay. There we go. Yes. Let me just name these types –

Jordan 9:08
It’s we name the dominant and the supplement boundaries of life. Okay, sorry. All right.

Rosanna 9:13
Nine personality types. Number one, the reformer, which is also known as the perfectionist, so you know, does that does that you know, shout out to you that that’s who you are.

Jordan 9:22
So these wait hold on these these nicknames for these types are these can change, right, depending on who’s defining it who’s writing it, but these are, in general, like the kind of generic one word descriptions?

Rosanna 9:35
Correct. Okay. So type one, the perfectionist, type two, the helper type three, the achiever, four, the individualist, five investigator, six loyalist, seven enthusiast, eight Challenger and nine Peacemaker. And then, I mean, you I mean, we could go we could probably talk about this for days. I mean, it’s very intricate and you can get into a lot of other things. There’s also like, centers like, Are you an instinctive person, a feeling person or a thinking person. And then then when they draw this out, it’s certain numbers fall into each of these centers. And then there’s a dominant emotion as well. Which means when you cope with hard things, you either respond in one of these three ways. Is it like anger or rage? Is it shame? Or is it fear? So like, talks you through, like, how you lead? Is it like with your head with your heart? And then how do you respond? Is it out of like, anger, shame, or fear, and so like where your number is, might show you a little bit about how you respond to certain situations in your life.

Jordan 10:35
So this can become relatively complex relatively quickly, if you want it to be, but it can also be at least like at first blush, like a really simple insight into some core elements of who you are.

Rosanna 10:47
Yeah, more of just a jumping off point for kind of understanding yourself a little bit better. Okay. So why don’t you go first, why don’t you talk about right you took in order to figure out your type, you basically can take a series of quizzes. So why don’t you just talk about your experience and what you found and what it tells you?

Jordan 11:05
Okay, so, like I said, I was a bit of a skeptic, and then I started looking into it a little bit more. And you know, it, I think, being able to say, like, I’m type one, or I’m type three, like there’s a certain security in that, because then then you’re you’re defined and it maybe it gives you kind of this, this cozy box through which you can understand yourself. And I – but I’ve taken three different quizzes, and each quiz yielded a different type for me that was dominant. So that’s why I’m still on the fence with like, you know, kind of declaring, like, I’m this type, or, you know, buying in too much to any single description. And, in even though the books that we looked at acknowledge, like it, it’s complicated, you’re a human being, you are complex. So it’s really difficult to just categorize this into nine flat distinctions. So the first set of description that I had the first quiz I took said, I’m a type five, which we’ll talk about the most, because that’s what you see the most in me. But then the second one I took told me that I am a type nine. And then the third one, I took only one, type three. And I looked at the descriptions for those. And it’s kind of interesting as you read these descriptions, because there’s definitely certain parts that you can relate to, in these descriptions. And as I read the descriptions for five and three, and nine, I’m like, Oh, yeah, like these, there’s, there’s ingredients in each of these that I feel like are really true. And, you know, part of the reason why I do you subscribe to this is because then I’d read the descriptions for like one and two and four, and all the ones that I was not, and I’d be like yeah, those are definitely not true about me. So it’s almost like it’s not your your 100%, one type and then 0% of the others. But I would say I’m like, you know, 90-some percent of five, and three and nine, and then like very little percent of the other ones as well. So it’s a it’s a mixture, I have a rainbow of types within me.

Rosanna 13:07
Well, and, you know, I’ve known you a long time. So like, I think you’re a very complex person, and complicated in some ways. And there are things that I recognize about you that other people do not understand. My parents have known you as long as I’ve known you. And it’s just interesting sometimes, like they don’t, they don’t get your reasoning or understanding behind some things. And I just, I have to tell them like, well, this is what you have to understand like, this is the way he processes it. This is the way this is the way he comes to his end result. And so like, I’ve got to give him the time and space to figure that out. Or to articulate it himself, even if I already know the answer. Like, I have to give that to him. And sometimes when I don’t give you those things, that’s kind of where there’s friction for us, because I’m not allowing you to kind of be you in the process. Yeah.

Jordan 13:53
All right. So I wrote down that it’s, I’m a little muddled, but we’ll, we’ll go with type five here just as a discussion point. So I thought this was insightful. Just like, like we’ve been saying it’s a tool to understand ourselves. Alright, so So five is the investigator, five is the investigator. Or it depends on the because I think this book said the observer, okay. And I, you know, the image that I got to my mind was when I was playing soccer growing up, when you’re a little kid, there’s no positions, every kid just runs into a swarm to the ball. Except for me what I would do, I didn’t like the swarm, I would actually stand back like on the defensive side of the ball, and then then I would be in a better position because then instead of the ball get kicked out of the swarm, then I would be able to run to it without obstruction. And that’s why even like my entire soccer playing career, I was on defense because I could stand back, look at the whole survey of the field, and then prepare and respond accordingly.

Rosanna 14:48
It’s so funny to like, even as a kid like that’s, that was part of who you were, probably wasn’t taught.

Jordan 14:54
More of an analogy than a definition. Alright, so the investigator, I’m just gonna – where did you get this by the way?

Rosanna 15:01
Babe, there’s so many books and websites so I –

Jordan 15:03
So we got this from one of those correct, okay? All right how to our investigators have a need for knowledge and are introverted, curious, analytical and insightful. And so I would say if to some extent, like each of those are true.

Rosanna 15:19
I’d say to every extent all of those are true.

Jordan 15:22
I don’t know… introverted makes it see the descriptions I’ve read a fives are like, it’s almost like like the, your scientific introvert. And that’s not quite me, I can be, you know, somewhat gregarious, I can be a leader and I can, I can…

Rosanna 15:36
He uses as gregarious as the term to define that.

Jordan 15:39
Yep. Don’t put me in a box! Anyway, how to get along with me. Be independent not clingy. Okay. Speak in a straightforward and brief manner. I need that this sounds funny – I need time alone to process my feelings and thoughts. Which, okay, I agree with, but I would define it differently.

Rosanna 15:59
You would define it differently. But I think the heart of the matter is still there.

Jordan 16:03
Says remember that if I seem aloof, distant or arrogant, it may be that I am feeling uncomfortable. Some of these are obvious, like make me feel welcome. But not too intensely. Or I might doubt your sincerity. Like, couldn’t anybody say that? Or if I become irritated when I have to repeat things, it may be because it was such an effort to get my thoughts out in the first place. Don’t we all get irritated when we have to repeat things?

Rosanna 16:28
Some people will tell you the same thing over – no see, that’s why like, that’s never mind that everybody is like you.

Jordan 16:36
I’m gonna skip a few of these.

Rosanna 16:37
I mean, you could even read a better description from one of these books those I got from a website.

Jordan 16:40
You can crack that one open. This one says pet peeves include big parties, which is not true. I mean, I love going to places and seeing people not enough of that these days. Other people’s loud music, I think that would bother anybody. And it lists a few other things as well. But here’s the biggest thing that I would say. And then you can go into what you find in that book too. But I think one of the things that I guess defines me as a five the most is really my desire to, to like step back and think and to plan before engaging. Because I’ve had a number of instances in life where I feel like I have engaged or responded to quickly before I really know what it is that I’m engaging with, and then acted erroneously in some way. And this is why like, if I if I’m in a debate with somebody, and they bring up a point that I never considered before, like, it really like knocks me on to my heels, in a sense, and I want to go back and kind of just brood over it, you know, to what extent does this have merit? How do I fold this in with some of my other knowledge or preconceptions, and then then I can proceed forward. So I think I have learned that being in a reactive position does not suit me very well. And I could certainly do it. But I think my biggest strength is being able to, like take a step back, be an objective like student and observer, and really, like make up my mind about the principle or the action needs to be taken and then act with confidence from there. And so that is something I’ve learned about myself over the years. And, you know, I certainly have other qualities that go beyond that. But that’s definitely something that I think is has come out a lot. Did you find something in there?

Rosanna 18:25
I couldn’t find anything about five because I didn’t know where to look. So I just marked where I need to be when I do mine. Do you want? Do you want to pull yours up?

Jordan 18:32
Okay, no, that’s okay. All right. But this book will spotlight this book real quick, we actually have two books that we looked at, and then a wide range of online resources as well. This one is called the inia Graham and you it is from 2020. And it’s written by Gina Gomez. And this one is great because it is it talks about not just an individual, but how that individual like interacts with other people or other types as well. So we can look at the descriptions for how like how your type and my type interact in this book. We enjoy that at the end.

Rosanna 19:06
All right, so do you want to just do like a little bit rundown on me and what my number is?

Jordan 19:10
You want me to run down? You know, I was gonna run down. You’re gonna run down yourself? Yeah. All right. What type are you, Rosanna?

Rosanna 19:16
I am type two, but I definitely have a three wing.

Jordan 19:20
Okay, so you feel like you I don’t know what my wing is. I could probably look.

Rosanna 19:23
Well maybe you’re like five wing nine or five wing three.

Jordan 19:26
I don’t know your I think your wing has to be a number next to next to the five wing four, six.

Rosanna 19:31
Okay, so my dominant type is two which is the helper. If you’re looking at the center’s like, I’m in like the feeling center. So I don’t like lead with like, facts and whatever. Like there’s something like I lead with like how something feels to me like if it feels right or feels wrong, or if I’m drawn to something. And it’s interesting is that my dominant dominant emotion for coping has more to do with shame than fear or anger. So it’s just interesting when I’m like processing like when I respond What am I responding out of? It’s probably this idea or notion that I am I’m not okay as I am or I’m shamed about something I’ve done and so that’s the reaction kind of spurs from that. But number two, the nurturer. The definition is help “Helpers are warm, concerned, nurturing and sensitive to other people’s needs.” I just like the descriptions in this book better. So maybe I’ll start with that. Especially two wing three – “twos are strong three wings are charmers, they’re very social energetic, have a positive can do attitude about life, they can enjoy being around other others offering support and encouraging those around them to see the bright side of life. They can be flirtatious and seductive and will usually be more extroverted than two wing ones.”

Jordan 20:53
Sounds about right.

Rosanna 20:56
How to get along with me, tell me that you appreciate me share fun times with me take an interest in my problems, though, I will probably try to focus on yours. Let me know I’m important and special to you and be gentle if you criticize me. What do I like about being a two? Being able to relate easily to people and make friends, knowing what people need and being able to make their lives better, being generous, caring and warm, and being sensitive and perceptive about others feelings.

Jordan 21:23
So you feel much more strongly about your type, like you read all the other eight descriptions and you’re like, eh those don’t really fit me. But this two, really does. I think so. And I would agree with that, too.

Rosanna 21:33
And I have characteristics of the perfectionist because I like things a certain way. And like I like to follow the rules to like, No, I’m doing it right. And it bothers me when I feel like I’m following the rules. And it’s not perceived as like I’m doing something, right. But I also have some characteristics of the achiever that I like to achieve that I work really hard that I’m independent, that I like to like to do things on my own. So I like to be a little autonomous. So you know, there, there are things in there that really stand out, that I can relate to, but even just this notion of wanting to be needed, and putting other people’s needs ahead of myself, that sometimes I don’t know what I want, because I’m too focused on worrying about what other people need.

Jordan 22:18
Yeah. And there’s a quote, I saw somewhere, I don’t remember where that I think kind of puts a nice description to it. The quote is, I want you to be happy, just as long as I’m the cause of it. And but I think that I see that play out in a lot of instances to where you really do take great care of others and very attuned to them in a way that even they’re unaware of. And this is why I lean on you a lot to say like, Okay, I’m, I’m kind of thinking thinking through this relational concept, or this this element that we want to do in relation to another person another couple, and you kind of have a better I was gonna say, a better ear for it, but just kind of a better knack for deciphering the appropriate thing to say, or the appropriate gesture to do in that circumstance.

Rosanna 23:09
I would agree. I would agree. So yeah, I mean, I there’s a lot that like, I see the two I can see it. But I do see like other things within the achiever within the perfectionist that, you know, I have some of those qualities, but I mean, really, I lead with kind of feeling and that’s kind of like how I I’m always there for others.

Jordan 23:31
Yeah, it reminds me of the great American classic film, Runaway Bride featuring Julia Roberts and Richard Gere. I think I think we saw this at the theater way back. Yeah, but we’ve talked about this before, because that it’s about this, this bride who keeps leaving her grooms at the altar. And ultimately, it turns out that she’s challenged with kind of a silly question like, What? How do you like your eggs? And she doesn’t know because she would just always say, Oh, just like my eggs, however, you know, whoever the current fiance was. And so at the end of the film, in this great, you know, climactic tear jerker moment, she makes all these different kinds of eggs, and then tries them one by one to decide which one she actually likes. And we’ve talked about that about you too, because sometimes, that’s something that’s lost along the way, like, a lot of times, and I make fun of you for this, but I asked you like, What do you want? Or what do you need? Or I just a simple question, like, do you want to go to bed? Or do you want to watch TV? And all you do is repeat the question back to me, like, what do you want to do? What do you want to do right now? What do you want to do? What do you want for breakfast? Or what do you want for breakfast? Or there’s even simple things around the house too. So this is where it maybe is a little bit more challenging for you in a sense to it because you’re totally the charmer and you know, the the extrovert and so on. But, like if I’m already like taking care of something around the house, like if I’m cleaning up the dishes from breakfast, you’re like, well, I’ll take care of those. It’s like, I’m already 90% done, and I’m in the middle of doing it like this second, and you’re sitting there peacefully, like, you can’t leave well enough alone.

Rosanna 25:05
It’s hard for me. Do you want to read that? type two and type five together?

Jordan 25:11
Okay, yeah, I’ve read this. And I think it’s, I think it’s a little off, but go ahead. So the, in this book they talk about, this is like the description of the relationship between a type two and a type five.

Rosanna 25:22
Yeah, this is I mean, yeah, I mean, talks about conflict, conflict resolution, living in harmony and challenges. Okay. Twos and fives have complementing strengths. twos are in touch with their emotions and help fives bring theirs to the surface. fives may be reserved with their feelings at first, but slowly at their own pace, they’ll feel safe enough to express how they feel with twos. When tos lean too heavily on their emotions, five can help them bring balance by displaying composure and steadiness. This pair may not immediately connect, but with time and patience, the relationship has the potential to grow into a tender friendship.

Jordan 25:55
I’m enjoying my tender friendship with you.

Rosanna 25:57
But you said that you thought we kind of operate, but I would, I would. I mean, there’s some truth to that in the I’m more like feelings and emotion and you will like help bring me down and keep me level-headed. And as shown a couple episodes ago, when you gave that beautiful definition of your my person, you know, you lead with feeling and emotion there when I didn’t. And so a lot of times we can offset each other with with those distinctions. But what did you like? You liked the comparison of me as a two and you as a nine? I don’t know where that is. It’s probably a little further in. But I mean, you felt like we were a little more dynamic. And not just this over time, you know, we’ll we’ll figure it out.

Jordan 26:38
Right. It also says this book also says elsewhere that type twos and fives are opposites. And it’s like, well, opposites attract. And I’m like, really not that, like, we’re not opposites by any stretch of the imagination. In some ways, but when I think of opposites, I’m thinking like two totally different things, that somehow they, you know, they find each other and they make their differences work. And you know that. So I think that’s a little extreme. But there’s, there’s some other I think, more more charming descriptions that are here as well. I think that there’s maybe I’ll find a little bit later, but it talks about, so I looked at the combination of a type two with a type three, and also with a type nine as well. And at least according to this book it talks about, I think the two and three combination describes us a little bit more accurately. Okay. But so here’s the fallacy with this as well, is that when you take these quizzes, it can be difficult because the questions that are posed you you can answer them one of two ways, it could be the way that is 100% accurate. Or it could be the way that you believe about yourself, or wish about yourself, but is not as true.

Rosanna 28:01
Right. A little bit before we recorded, we pulled up a quiz. And you read one of the descriptors and I said, Well, how would you answer that, and you gave yourself like, one rating. And I was like, I didn’t like a lot we agreed on, but it’s like, how do you perceive yourself? And how do others perceive how you really are? And so there is this, you know, it’s like, when you take those quizzes in magazines, when you’re like a teenager, it’s like, I’m gonna I’m gonna put all bs because I want to be like, what that type is at the bottom.

Jordan 28:25
Because you want to turn out a certain type?

Rosanna 28:27
Yeah right. And so, you know, that’s, I think one of the challenges is like, a lot of times now we’re starting to step back and look at who we are and what we want, what our values are, like, what direction we’re headed. And so sometimes in our minds, we think or say that we’re one way, but is that the truth? Is that the reality and so I think that’s what we’re where conversations like this are important. So if you’ve never taken an enneagram test, or like you and your husband, or your wife, or your friends, like haven’t done it together, like, you know, take a quiz together and see like, would you answer the same way as you would like in front of your partner? Would they rate you somewhere else in a different category? And not because you need to be a certain type, but just to acknowledge, like the nuances of your personality and like the nuances of your relationship?

Jordan 29:13
Right? Yeah. I mean, it raises the question, Are you the best person to determine your type? Right? And I think, I think to some extent, yes, like you, once you really like, think about and reflect on yourself, you know yourself pretty well. And could probably answer those questions very accurately. But I think it’s interesting to compare the outcome that you have for one of those quizzes or one of those types to how someone who knows you pretty intimately would also do that. And so that’s why when I look at this, I’m like, well, it’s nuanced. I see a little bit of myself in this one and that one, and use you seem pretty adamant. You’re like, No, no, Jordan, you’re five. And so I take that really seriously. But like I would say, with a grain of salt as well, and a grain of salt is small, but I do like to kind of mix that in and think like, there is nuance to it. I guess part of me too is, as I say, a little skeptical of being put in, like a nicely tied, you know, box with a nice little bow on it. Because, I mean, when you you’re dealing with human personality, it is it is complex as a lot of gray area. And, you know, I, I think that, if we’re too quick to do that, then we may be missing out on other, you know, potential strengths or just insights into ourselves. And if we do that for someone out, like, if you’re, if you’re like, if you see me only as one way, you may sort of like overcompensate with certain things that are maybe like, you know, too much of or not, I would say not the right angle, what I may actually need in the relationship.

Rosanna 30:49
Yeah, and that’s, you know, where bias comes into play. And, and being closed minded is like, you know, we picture people a certain way, or they’ve been a certain way for so long. And so we lock them into that box or that type. But that doesn’t mean that they have different parts of their personality that not that you haven’t been privy to, but just that you haven’t seen, or, you know, you know, going from having no kids to then being a mom with, with kids, you know, you undergo a lot of change, and that changes who you are, and maybe even you know, how you see yourself or how you relate to people, you know, if I compared being a teacher before I had kids, and then I went back in the classroom now having kids, for very different kids with different personalities, like, would I treat certain kids differently, or have a little more empathy for like, the kid who has a lot of energy and can’t sit still and isn’t quiet, because we’ve got one of those, you know, like, you know, different different things in people’s lives, slowly change them. And we have to be open to seeing that and realizing that and, and, and being able to relate to them, even if they’ve changed?

Jordan 31:54
Yeah. So I think the idea is that like looking at enneagram as a tool, and I would even say like it’s a useful tool for understanding your own needs, understanding your partner’s needs. And but it’s not necessarily the end of the story. And you can and we’re really, like, really, like just amateurs at looking at this. But even just the dabbling, that we’ve done has led to some useful insights.

Rosanna 32:17
Yeah. So do you want to move to takeaways? Or is there something else within this conversation that you want to kind of share or explore?

Jordan 32:28
I don’t have any other questions, I guess. Actually, the only other one that does come to mind is about kids, like, can you use this to help you understand your own children better?

Rosanna 32:39
I think so. You know, I think it kind of pairs with the love languages, just like, you know, like how your kids need to be shown love or express love that this is something you can see about like their character about maybe the way that they’re viewing the world, and it can kind of help you understand maybe what they need. And so you know, as you as you’re reading the types, it’s you know, you can see, like, what did you say? You said Leo was what type?

Jordan 33:01
A seven.

Rosanna 33:03
A seven, and the seven is, I forgot – the enthusiast. No surprise there.

Jordan 33:09
Yeah. And so but as I was reading that description, you know, understanding, or you know, or second child like it, it really stood out. But I didn’t get a strong sense of the other kids like in reading those descriptions, either. So I think the same thing, like I don’t want to, like leave to any conclusion, as a five, you know, would be prone to do leave to any conclusion. And you know, too quickly, this kind of label any of our kids just like, I wouldn’t want to do that with you. But I do in the same manner, I’m like, just use this as a tool to maybe understand and gain some additional insights that I wouldn’t have had if I didn’t look into it.

Rosanna 33:47
Well, yeah. And I’m, you know, I’m reading a book now about like, being a boy mom, like what what your sons need from you in a way to understand them better, because it’s like being female and never having been a little boy. So there’s disconnects for me. So it’s like, just using it as a tool to better understand them and their personality type, the way they perceive the world, like, do they move on feeling or thinking or instinct, like, you know, you can see those those different ways that they act or interact? Or when they’re coping with something stressful? Like, where’s that? Where’s that coming from? And so it’s just a way to, to be better present for them. And to understand them, instead of just throwing my hands up in the air being like, I just don’t get it. I don’t know what to do with you. I don’t know how to address it. Like just really understanding where they’re coming from. Right. So I think the biggest takeaway would be this, like, what are the benefits of knowing your enneagram, which is, you know, just another word for your personality type. And I think there are four different takeaways. And I think we’ve touched upon all of them. It’s, you know, it’s to promote your own self awareness. Like, you need to be aware of who you are, what you stand for how you think, and it’s really, like we said, comes from nature and nurture. You know, the things that you’re kind of born with and then how you’re raised and those values and So that you can learn how to love yourself. And so, you know, we talked about self care, and we’ve been talking about You’re my person and, and loving others. And so like, you have to learn how to love yourself for who you are, none of us are perfect, we have our flaws, we have our weaknesses, we have our strengths. So we have to kind of own those things about us. And then in those weaknesses, kind of understand how we can better be better in those. And I think both of those things will allow you to improve your relationships with others. As you start to number four, boost your compassion for others, maybe you will understand people differently after reading this. And if you can understand that they react in this way, for these reasons like that might give you a better kind of toolkit to deal with people, right?

Jordan 35:44
I mean, if anything, it should open up our eyes to be like, okay, like, this person is not the same as me. And so the reason why they’re, they’re thinking differently, or interpreting this differently, responding differently is because they are different. And the better that we could just acknowledge that those differences exist, and then perceive what those actual differences are, that helps us, you know, inter relate to the other people in our lives better.

Rosanna 36:08
Right. We have these expectations for people because we think that they should do the thing –

Jordan 36:13
That’s not how I see it. That’s not what I would do.

Rosanna 36:14
Right? That’s not what I would do. So if they’re not doing it the way that I want them to do it, then it must be wrong, but it’s not. It’s just it’s what’s right for them. And so just acknowledging that, that we are all different, we’re wired differently, we interact differently. We need different things, especially at different times, then it’s like, okay, yeah, that’s that’s just them. And like, that’s fine. I don’t, it doesn’t have to, like upset me.

Jordan 36:33
Yeah. So good. So this is a quote Socrates. You know, he was a big proponent of saying, like, “know yourself.” And so this is a great step to do that, but also a really important tool for getting to know others as well. Yeah. Great.

Rosanna 36:49
Well, thank you for joining us this week. And hopefully, you can use some of these tools. Take a quiz with a spouse, do it with a friend or even just kind of read up a little bit more about like who you are.

Jordan 36:59
Yeah, we have a website with shownotes for all of our episodes. So what we’d really like for you to do is to when you take a quiz, just like we’re saying I’ve been upfront with our types and what we’ve learned about ourselves and one another, go ahead and leave a comment on the show notes for today, so that we can see what other types of personalities are out there and what you’re learning as we go.

Rosanna 37:18
Great. Thanks for joining us. Have a great day.

Jordan 37:20
Thank you, everybody.