Season 2, Episode 8: Hobbies vs. Hustle

Rosanna 0:01
Hello, and welcome to the relentless pursuit podcast. Today we’re talking all about hobbies and side hustles. Nowadays, you kind of hear people talking about hustles, or side hustles. And it feels like everybody has one. But you really don’t hear people talking about hobbies anymore. And so I did a little research about hobbies, and they’re supposed to actually be really healthy, really good for you a really great form of self self care. So if they’re so good for us, why don’t we have them? So let’s talk a little bit about the difference between a hobby and a side hustle and kind of how they’re related. And kind of just dig into that topic today.

Jordan 0:49
Yeah, is I think it’s a very traditional topic, like looking at hobbies. And it might have once been more common question, like, what are your hobbies? But I do feel like that’s faded away, and maybe something we need to rekindle with ourselves. And just with our generation. Yeah, I

Rosanna 1:09
mean, they say that millennials don’t see work like past generation generations do. And so millennials being I think they like outline millennials as or define them as anyone born like, after 1980 1982. So we kind of fit into the millennial, older millennials, older millennials, so we’re better than some other millennials. We had dial up internet. So that’s really the difference probably. But like this notion of work, especially like for our parents generation, and even like people a little bit older than us work was like a place was a place that you went to work, and then you left work and you had this life. But now our generation work is not a place, work is a thing. It’s like a mentality, it comes home with you. It’s like part of who you are, you’re proud of it. But it’s, it’s like a bigger part of your identity, where it used to be that you like kind of left work at work, and then had home At home, or had these hobbies or interests or other things that you did that kind of defined you outside of that. And like you were saying, it’s like, Yeah, do we have hobbies and interests anymore? Or are we letting work kind of encompass us in a greater way that doesn’t allow for these hobbies,

Jordan 2:22
right. And I don’t think it’s what the way you define work was helpful, because it is a thing, it is an attitude. And it can happen anytime, anywhere, which in some ways can be a plus, but really changes our mentality towards other things as well. And so I think part of it is thinking like, well, if I could work anytime, anywhere, and you know, I think we think our generation has this preoccupation with productivity, and some sort of material outcome that has like some degree of value. And I think because we’re preoccupied with that, then things that are simply enjoyable for their own sake, take a backseat.

Rosanna 3:04
I think you’re right, like, we feel like if we’re going to put some time and effort into something, we need to get something out of it. Pass just like this intrinsic joy, right, like that we put in, and then we get out this many dollars worth. Yeah, right, that there’s some kind of an exchange there instead of enjoying something for the sake of it. So before we continue this conversation and kind of get deeper into it, and do some q&a is back and forth, would it be helpful to define? Let’s see, I was gonna start with a definition. To start with the definition. You want to start or you want me to,

Jordan 3:34
I want you to because I thought a lot about this, except you wrote it down. So I think you’re better prepared.

Rosanna 3:41
Alright, my note, say a hobby is an activity done regularly, in your leisure time for pleasure. Which kind of blew my mind when I read that. So it’s like, okay, there are like multiple things there. So something that you do, and you don’t just do it, like once a year, right? Like, it’s regular.

Jordan 4:00
So something some consistency towards it cracked.

Rosanna 4:03
So like you’re constantly, you know, going after it doing it in your leisure time. And it is for pleasure. So it’s not for any kind of gain. It’s just to enjoy. So I was looking at some of the attributes of that. And it says, Well, how do you know if something’s a good hobby, and they said, hobbies should be fun. If you feel energized and excited and want to do more of it, then it’s a good fit. The best kinds of hobbies challenge you to grow. Research suggests that hobbies boost your mood, help you feel satisfied and decrease stress. It’s a form of self care. Yeah.

Jordan 4:37
So there’s a lot of benefits from that. And I was reading about it too. People with hobbies tend to sleep better, they tend to feel better about themselves about life. I also read that they tend to be more successful and productive at work. So that was from an article in The New York Times and it also said Don’t, don’t start a hobby so that you can become As more successful or productive at work, the whole point is really like detaching from that and pursuing something that you have has intrinsic value for you.

Rosanna 5:08
So it’s it’s like that release where it’s Yeah, you’re not looking to gain something out of it. It’s like your body needs that enjoyment. Right? Like, just like you would like water a plant and give it sunshine, like a hobby kind of does that for us, where it like helps us to bloom where we’re planted. And we can get things out of it without actually like getting something out of it. Like that’s concrete or evident.

Jordan 5:28
Yeah. And I think that’s important to distinguish it from an interest or I think you wrote down a past time. Because there I think there’s certainly things that that interest us, but a hobby implies some degree of engagement, I would even say like physical and mental engagement in the task, rather than a more passive reception of something. Okay. So

Rosanna 5:50
when you say active, like, I think of something like I mean, maybe these are lame, but like gardening, cooking, painting, hiking, like things that you, you do, like you’re moving, you’re interacting, like you’re kind of like going out in search of it. Instead of that passive, which you mentioned, pastime, which I have a definition for that. Things that just help you pass the time. Just to pass the time. Yeah.

Jordan 6:17
So you’re not really using the time you’re just do filling it with something of no value.

Rosanna 6:22
Yeah. So like, in my mind, like just letting the time pass filling it with something with no value, Netflix, scrolling and swiping on your phone, right like those, like we pass the time with those things, but those are not hobbies. Those are not interests. Those are like time waste watching. Yeah,

Jordan 6:38
so like binge watching. A television series is not a hobby.

Rosanna 6:42
No, nor an interest. It’s just something you do to pass the time.

Jordan 6:46
Right. It wasn’t baseball did was it used to be America’s pastime?

Unknown Speaker 6:49
Yeah.

Rosanna 6:50
Because if you didn’t play it, right, you just sat and watched it, right? You watched it to pass the time. It’s not like you were like, in a guy’s you know, baseball or softball league or something you weren’t. So America’s pastime. We people watched it to pass the time. Yeah.

Jordan 7:05
And then, but I think that was surpassed by Wheel of Fortune.

Rosanna 7:10
Oh, you’re right. That is the tagline. America’s pastime,

Jordan 7:13
isn’t what they say.

Rosanna 7:15
And I’m not gonna turn on the wheel later and find out.

Jordan 7:17
Right? But yeah, so I think it’s important distinction because we’re, we’re either hyper productive, or when we’re, there’s like this, this swing, and we turn that off and turn into, I don’t know, is there a term like hyper non productive, like the the opposite, where we really become like, just so such passive recipients of entertainment, that there’s there’s no in between and hobbies seems like it’s in between where it is productive, it is engaging, but the value is in what we get out of it, and not necessarily what doesn’t necessarily have monetary value. Okay,

Rosanna 7:57
so let’s define hustle to kind of throw that in with hobby interest pastime. A hustle is a means of making money alongside one’s main form of employment or income. And so there are plenty of reasons why people have a hustle. Maybe the job that they have isn’t. It’s a job and it’s not a career. And so then they find something that they can do to kind of generate some income on the site. And I feel like a lot of people who start some kind of hustle or side hustle, do that, because they need the money, but it’s usually in like a different realm where they have a little bit more interest if they don’t have a job that they love in an area that they’re, you know, skilled at.

Jordan 8:34
Yeah, well, I’d say a hustle is different than a side hustle. Because you’re you can you can hustle in your job, you know, if you’re trying to climb the ladder, or earn that kind of income that you want to get that that title, you can hustle towards that then the side hustle would be like a second job almost that you’re trying to develop for yourself.

Rosanna 8:53
I think people use like hustle side hustle interchangeably. It’s like this thing that you do on the side to make some extra money. I think that’s that’s the point. I don’t know. But

Jordan 9:00
what I’m saying is that they’re not interchangeable, like you can hustle towards your regular career too.

Rosanna 9:06
Okay. Okay. Agreed, I

Unknown Speaker 9:08
guess?

Jordan 9:09
Well, I mean, the reason why I bring that up is because there’s, I think this fixation on doing things that are of value in the marketplace. And so whether it’s a hustle or a side hustle, you know, whether it’s your full time job or you’re part time, it is, you know, trying to quantify our talent or skills towards you know, to someone else, whereas a hobby takes that out of the equation, and it can still we can still hustle after a hobby in a sense, but we’re not worried about trying to appease someone else through it or have the market recognize our, our efforts. Okay.

Rosanna 9:49
So should we dive into some questions?

Jordan 9:50
Yeah, I have. This might be my longest list of questions here. There’s so there’s a few bullet points. Yeah, there’s there’s a lot to explore with this because like you said, it’s a fantastic form of self care. It hobbies, having hobbies is something that has been so essential for so many generations and it’s kind of evaporating from our discourse right now.

Rosanna 10:09
Okay, so let’s bring it back. Maybe Yeah, relentless pursuit of season two is gonna help us all bring back a little self care in the form of some hobbies.

Jordan 10:18
I hope so.

Rosanna 10:20
Alright, I’ll start. Here’s my first question. Do we have hobbies anymore?

Jordan 10:26
Because we mean you. Sure. Let’s

Rosanna 10:27
start with us. What’s your hobby?

Jordan 10:30
I would say yes, we, you and I do have hobbies. I am a little bit more artsy. So I know you, you hear me play the piano, that’s right over there. And so just about every day, I’m playing that until the kids clamber on my lap and like, interrupt or start pounding on the keys. But that’s something that I’ve done ever, ever since I was a kid. And I don’t worry, every once in a while, I’ll like post a clip of me playing something or the kids dancing to something I play. But it’s real. It is really like just for me, and I spent, I love it, I spent almost like two years on just like one song. Because I’m not that good. At that point. Well,

Rosanna 11:13
let’s Okay. Let’s not say you’re not that good. But

Jordan 11:16
your definition in my definition would very good piano player would entail. But it’s so but it took me I’d say like two years of like coming home from work and almost like 10 to 20 minutes a day like to master this one song that I had done. And I really enjoyed that. And I never performed it for anyone. And and I don’t care. I just enjoy doing it. And now I’m doing the same thing with something else that I’ve been working on. Like just for the last few months to the practice of the day, I find that very fulfilling. Something else that I do, and you don’t see this as much. But you have seen this as I have almost like these Shel Silverstein ask, like children’s poems that I just cracked myself up with. And I write them down. And, you know, once a while I read them to the kids. And so, you know, at some point, maybe that is something I’d be interested in sharing if any of them were. That’s just something I’ll enjoy, like taking some time to do during my downtime.

Rosanna 12:11
Yeah, those are two things that are hobbies, right? That they kind of refresh you, right? They’re like good for your soul. There’s something that you want to do like no one even no one else even really knows that you do them, but you do them with some sort of consistency. Mm hmm. You look forward to them, and you derive some joy from them.

Jordan 12:27
What’s good about you,

Rosanna 12:29
I would definitely think that like cooking and baking are hobbies of mine. You know that I love to cook, we take meal time around here very seriously. You know, the only thing that’s upsetting around meal times is that, and I will say this, like I’m a good cook. Oh, yeah. And our kids do not appreciate it. No,

Jordan 12:47
but I saw euro know how good you have it.

Rosanna 12:51
But like, you know, we’ll decide on something for dinner. And then you know, like, they’ll have a lot in my day. I’m like, you know, you know what this dinner needs? I need some focaccia, Okay, I’m gonna make some focaccia, like, I really enjoy cooking. I really enjoy baking. And dusting, like when when people come and get to enjoy that too. And hosting. And I think I’ve always liked to do that. When we do have people over I’m very intentional about like, knowing what they like. And then like even setting a table in a way in which like, makes them feel like warm and inviting. And when they ask, can I bring something I always say no, because I want them to come here and like to feel loved and to like, give them my best. And that’s why people like coming here. And so I would say that’s a hobby of mine. It’s just kind of like that entertaining, and like really planning something out like that and cooking for people and, and using my hands in that way.

Jordan 13:35
Yeah. So could you see like, I’m contrasting ours a little bit because I feel like what I’m doing people will hear is like, you have to hear the piano. There’s no avoiding it, but not really performing for anyone. But when you were cooking, like you almost need someone else to eat it. Right? You ever just make something just to make it you don’t care who eats it? Yeah,

Rosanna 13:58
I mean, how many times do I like, I when I cook, it’s I’m not really cooking for myself, I’m cooking for other people. But there are times I’ve cooked or baked something and not touched it because it’s not something that I want and will give it to other people. But I don’t do it with like, the need for people to like recognize it either. So it’s just something that I like to do. So if you’re a friend of mine or a family member, you probably get to enjoy any fortunate recipients. Right? Yeah,

Jordan 14:22
yeah, I’m glad to hear that that’s very common, especially in 2020. When people have just like develops new hobbies or new interests, then like food is one that we we all just need to eat and some people have really enjoyed not just sustaining themselves but like really like taking that on as an interest that they’ve developed into a skill. Yeah,

Rosanna 14:48
I’m, I’m artsy but in a different way than you. So I think I take a lot of pleasure in like decorating and that sort of thing. And so that’s that for really anybody else but myself, but I enjoy that kind of thing. You can look at an empty wall forever an empty room or, like, we don’t need any. But I like to, like look at a room and see what it needs and like, give it a space. I know.

Jordan 15:11
I know you do, but I don’t mind the decor either.

Rosanna 15:13
Okay, so we’ve identified a couple hobbies that we have things that we do consistently. There are other things that we do, and we like to do that we could name but those are just a few. But do you think like the average person are hobbies a thing of the past you think a lot of people have hobbies?

Jordan 15:28
According to research, hobbies are definitely on the decline. And that is the kind of goes along with this other question that I had when we started talking about like, why, like, why is that? Why do we seem to have this mentality that hobbies are not valuable, or we don’t have the time or space to be able to implement them in our lives?

Rosanna 15:53
Okay, so here’s a question I have. Okay. Is exercise a hobby?

Jordan 15:59
I did read that. Yes, it qualifies as a hobby.

Rosanna 16:03
But should that be your only hobby or your only form of self care?

Jordan 16:07
It could be okay. Okay, right. I mean, it’s it checks all the boxes.

Rosanna 16:12
I know. But like you, I, the only reason I’m struggling with this a little bit. It’s almost like right, like you, like you eat and you sleep a certain way to be healthy, you have to exercise to be healthy. So it’s like sleeping, right? a hobby

Jordan 16:24
for some people.

Rosanna 16:27
If it’s if you’re kind of focused on your health and your wellness, like exercise is a key component to that. So is doing something that takes care of you physically, is that technically a hobby? Or would a hobby be like, you know, you’re in shape? So you hike for enjoyment? Or like, you know what I mean? Like, is hitting the gym or lifting weights? Or like, like, is running? Is it a hobby? Or is that like just a form of good? self care?

Jordan 16:55
I think this is a definition. Yeah, cuz there’s this a lot of fine lines. But I think a hobby is at an intersection where there’s, there’s interest and passion, and then that those intersect to lead us towards something that is spiritually fulfilling, okay? Whereas a hustle would be similar in that it’s where you have like an interest in a passion. But that takes you towards something that is monetarily or you know, in fulfilling in the marketplace. So it’s different. So that’s why I would say exercise could potentially be a hobby. If you take an interest in it, you’re doing it consistently. And it, it fulfills you.

Rosanna 17:33
You’re not like reluctantly exercising, like, okay, so it’s something that you enjoy,

Jordan 17:37
right? It’s something that you invest time in, you invest your essay, your non religion you’re engaged in, and anything that that fits that criteria could be happy as well.

Rosanna 17:49
So then would you define exercise for you as a hobby?

Jordan 17:52
I never thought of it that way for myself. I don’t know. For me, it’s very, it’s rather begrudging. I’ve been more consistent this year than I have in the past with workout. But I would not miss it. If it were not a necessity.

Rosanna 18:07
Alright, shoot, you haven’t really asked many questions. I’ve asked a couple. Now, what do you got?

Jordan 18:14
Can Can a hobby be done for money?

Rosanna 18:21
know that it totally moves to a hustle? Well, that’s

Jordan 18:23
what I mean. That’s what I wanted to explore was like, let’s say you had just something that you do for fun on your own. And somebody offered you money for doing that same thing. So I mean, that

Unknown Speaker 18:35
happened to me

Jordan 18:36
nothing about what you’re doing changes, except that now someone has given it $1 value. Well, does that completely change what it is? Or can can? Can it still be a hobby, and still have $1 amount on it?

Rosanna 18:49
I don’t think so. I think once whatever that hobby or that interest, or that talent that you have moves into an exchange for money, it now becomes work. And it’s not just like something you do. And then it’s just like something you have becomes, it becomes a commodity, then correct, you’re trading your time for money, you’re not just doing it, for the joy of it. And then, you know, whatever you want now it’s, you know, moves into that workplace. One of the things I read basically said, like, it’s okay, it’s okay to do something for money, but then you need to pick, you know, another hobby or another interest so that you have that form of self care that it’s it moves beyond just doing it for an exchange, but then you have something else that you then replace it with, right? Like I used to like design things graphically. And I did it for fun, and then I turned it into kind of a side hustle. I was selling stuff on Etsy. And once I was doing it so consistently, and for so many clients and customers, whether it was people I knew or you know, people online, it also took away some of the enjoyment of it because it was you know, doing what they wanted, how they wanted it like very specifically, and it took the joy out of it and it did turn it into work and then I found something else to kind of replace that. So like I could still do that. But I needed Another outlet to kind of like have a

Jordan 20:01
release. So then the work really becomes for someone else.

Rosanna 20:07
Yeah, the work is not for you, for the Batman or of yourself for how it makes you feel.

Jordan 20:12
Yeah. Is this mind blowing like for our generation to think that something other than money can be fulfilling, right? I mean, but think about this way, something other when it will be more fulfilling for you than something that has monetary value?

Rosanna 20:28
Well, you you had a side hustle for a while, yeah, you wrote on the side, and you got paid very well to do it. And that kind of helped us like financially for a while. I mean, we had like

Jordan 20:38
a fantastic. I mean,

Rosanna 20:39
it was great money. And then one day, you looked at me and said, I don’t think I want to do this anymore. And I kind of looked at him. I was like,

Unknown Speaker 20:45
excuse me?

Rosanna 20:47
What do you what are we gonna do without that extra money? You’re like, Well, I mean, it’s not like we needed the money, but I just I feel like it doesn’t it used to gratify me, it used to fulfill me, it used to be fun. I don’t feel like that anymore. And so we had that conversation. And I was like, Okay, well, then I guess you don’t have to do it anymore. You know, obviously, if you need the money to eat food, I mean, then you need that exchange. But if it’s something on the side that you don’t have to be paid for. And it’s not giving you joy, you shouldn’t have to do it.

Jordan 21:14
Yeah. So that’s interesting how adding money as a factor will modify the way that we feel about him to like, perceive the activities that we’re doing?

Rosanna 21:25
Well, and then sometimes we carry on doing things that we don’t want, because we’re so tied to money. And then there’s that correlation of money and happiness, like money can’t always buy happiness, right? If you have extra time to do what you want, and that makes you happy,

Jordan 21:38
right? Well, how many times if we thought like, if only we can, like, take x like, you know, whatever we’re good at, or whatever we’ve produced and figure out a way to get paid for doing that. Would we, you know, in our in our minds think that that would make us happier. But that’s really not the case. And probably many of those instances, and we’re taught growing up, like follow your passion, follow your heart, or what’s the phrase, if you, if you do, if you do what you love for a job, then you’ll never work a day in your life. Right? We were, we were born and raised into that kind of mentality where like passion should be work, but I think it’s good to separate those pull them apart a little bit too. And think like, well work like leads to the marketplace. And it leads to money, which we ascribe some degree of value. And it’s nice to be able to hold that up to other people. Not that we’re like sharing dollar amounts or anything, but to say like, look at all the stuff that I can buy with what I earned from my hustle. Whereas maybe there’s more value in having this hobby that is internally fulfilling. And whether that’s on display or not just like allowing that to fuel us in a way that money or like other commodities camp.

Rosanna 22:54
Well on that then reminds me of you know, that other phrase where it’s like, work hard, play hard. Yeah. When you’re at work, work hard, right? earn money, you know, be able to support your family, by the things that you need, the things that you want the things that you wish for, but then play hard, like take a break, because those things refresh us and like you outside, it kind of makes us better when we’re at work. makes us better when we’re at home, because we’ve got time to kind of release and let go. More questions? Yeah.

Jordan 23:19
You want me to keep them coming?

Rosanna 23:21
Yeah.

Jordan 23:23
Okay. So my next question then is why do you think we gravitate more easily towards our screens, like you’ve mentioned Netflix, or like to our social media towards this very, like passive filling the gap kinds of engagements, rather than towards hobbies.

Rosanna 23:42
I wonder if it has something to do with like, even just not knowing what we want our hobbies to be, like, you have to really intentionally like if you’re, if you don’t have a hobby, right? And you basically you work a lot, and you’re at work, and maybe it’s even harder, you have a family, you have a wife, like you have other commitments, right? Like, how do you find time to fit those hobbies in, but you have to, like intentionally, like sit down and like figure out, okay, like, what do I want to try, and then you have to like, go out and try. And you might have to try on a bunch of different hobbies before you find like the right one or the one that fits. So even just intentionally thinking about it, trying a bunch of different ones find what fits like that’s a process. And in a generation where we lack time and we lack space. And for some of us, we lack the money to like write like people like to golf is a leisure activity, like those things are expensive. And so I think maybe sometimes that keeps people from finding something that they may like, and it’s a whole lot easier to default to a Netflix or social media or especially when those devices and those programs are meant to like pull

Jordan 24:45
it already set. So intention grabbing Yeah. And that you almost wonder what came first did the are just attention to two screens just like come first and arising kind of blackout the time that we might have otherwise. Skip to hobbies? Or are they filling in the gaps for the hobbies that we’ve given up?

Rosanna 25:07
You know, I think they fill in the gaps and easy to grab, easy to grab a screen, easy to turn something on easy to grab, you know, a phone, I think they fill in those gaps. And I think for us, and I also mean everybody is we need to just move those, like those little gaps that we find during the day into like bigger chunks so that we can enjoy something external.

Jordan 25:28
Yeah. And they can be difficult and there is almost like this, these the set of prerequisites to get into a happy I guess it depends what the happy is. But you know, if there’s a financial commitment to purchase what you know, whatever materials are implicit with that, if you’re birdwatching, you need the binoculars, if you’re painting you need the the canvas canvases can buy. Look it up. Yeah. So right. And of course, you need the time as well. And I feel like that might be even more so like, where our generation is just a little bit faulty with his feeling like we don’t have time when we have so many conveniences, and tools at our disposal, and they’ve only resulted in making us more busy. So when we finally do have an opportunity to engage with something without distraction, it’s at the end of what has been like a long day, hence the requisite energy that you need to engage and having meaningful, they just isn’t there. So it’s easier just to turn something on, watch it, or do something else that’s rather passive or absent minded and then move on.

Rosanna 26:33
Is that what we don’t have? Whether it’s time or money? Or is it what we do have, which is an excuse?

Unknown Speaker 26:40
Oh,

Rosanna 26:41
well, but I think about that, like, um, alright, so I think of my dad who’s been retired for a few years now. And I think of some of the hobbies he’s picked up along the way. You know, gardening, he’s gotten back to like, making homemade wine, you know, rich requires time and effort, but it also requires money. And he’s gotten into walking, and even jogging, you know, things that I never thought he would pick up, because now he has the time. But he’s always so impressed with our kids who all take piano lessons, and are and Juliette has just started this year. So she was five when she started now she’s six. And his only had what a dozen or less lessons, but she can play songs. And anytime each of the kids has picked up the piano, he’s like, Wow, that’s so like, how do they just, they just learned and that, you know, it kind of blows his mind a little bit. And we’ve even said, well, Dan, if you want to play the piano, you could play all you have to do is start taking some lessons. He’s like, Oh, I could, you know, I could never do that. Because it’s, you know, you kind of talk yourself out of it. When you’re nervous about trying something that’s out of your comfort zone. That’s totally something out of his comfort zone. So it’s not that he doesn’t have the time or he doesn’t have the money to pay for lessons, it’s that he has an excuse as to why he can’t do it

Jordan 27:51
steps we give ourselves these invisible barriers for why we can’t be more invested in something that might actually interest us.

Rosanna 27:58
Yeah, I can’t fish because I don’t live in an area where I can you know, go fishing very easily. I’m sure you can, it might not be a lake, but you know, you can go to the forest preserve and fish over here or you know, to the like the little local watering hole. So like, what are the excuses we’re making? Are we letting those keep us from having hobbies? Yeah.

Jordan 28:17
So so you’re essentially saying like to someone who would would say well, I would have a hobby but I’m too busy. You’re essentially saying like, no, you’re not too busy just haven’t prioritized it?

Rosanna 28:28
Yeah, I think I would say that. Um, you know, we have a dog now a puppy who needs to be walked and you and I several nights a week take turns on who goes and takes the dog for a walk in the dark in in the cold? Not like my first idea. But sometimes you’re like, were you going to take the talk tonight? Or you know, I don’t mind going because it’s like a chance to just be alone and we walk with the dog and it’s quiet and we can kind of like just think and right like walking is kind of becoming a hobby for us.

Jordan 28:57
I don’t know I think is walking the hobby exercise can be walking is

Rosanna 29:03
I think it is detaching from everything else having some quiet some solitude, right, like a time to enjoy and reflect. I think it’s a hobby. All right?

Jordan 29:12
Well, we’ll let you listeners decide if walking qualifies as a hobby or not? Let us know in the comments. Alright, so I have two kind of related questions to kind of drive this conversation from a slightly different angle. As a spouse and as a parent, as a spouse, how can we make space for one another to pursue hobbies? And as a parent? What should we be doing? If we think they’re forcing hobbies available? What should we do as a parent to foster that with our kids?

Rosanna 29:44
Alright, let’s start with the parent thing first. Because we haven’t talked about our kids in a bit, right? Um, I think it’s just giving them the opportunity to try different things. So we always let our kids choose a sport in each of the seasons, you know, whatever. They’re into up to or if someone wants to do gymnastics or dance, piano, they want to learn a different instrument, we kind of like let them get their feet wet in all of those areas, it doesn’t mean that they’re a magnificent athlete or a dancer, whatever it is, but at least they get to try it and decide if they like something. And so I think exposure to a variety of things, you know, whether it’s chess club, or cooking class, or whatever it is, it just lets them kind of find

Jordan 30:27
what makes them happy. So almost saying like, okay, as the parent, I’m gonna make you do something, here’s your options for what those some things can be. So that it’s it’s a little bit of that balance, where they’re, they’re given the opportunity, and they have some degree of choice.

Rosanna 30:42
But as parents, we know, our kids sometimes better than they know themselves, sometimes pushing them to try things that they might not ordinarily choose may be beneficial for them to kind of like, push past those excuses or those invisible barriers as well. Hmm. What was the second part of your question?

Jordan 30:58
The spouse question? So that’s a question because that’s a big piece of our show is like talking about just being supportive in our being supported by all of your relationships. So, you know, at home, obviously, with our families does, appropriately so like take a lot of time and energy, to be a good spouse and to be a good parent. So how can we work together to make space for one another, to pursue something that we independently enjoy?

Rosanna 31:25
But I feel like you just answered the question is that we have to make space for each other to have the space to enjoy what we like.

Jordan 31:32
And just do it is your boy Yeah.

Rosanna 31:35
Right. What do we what do we say? Like the questions? What What was the the title of the episode in season one? The questions that we

Jordan 31:41
asked most important questions. Most important, Episode Three, season one, everyone, great episode. Thank

Rosanna 31:46
you. Thank you for that reference. Where are we talking about? What is it that you need? How can I support you in what you want. And I think it just that comes from a place of valuing and honoring your spouse, and wanting them to be the best person they can be. And sometimes for you to be the best person you can be. You need to have time at work to help provide for the family. But you also need a release, right? You need to be here and be the dad and be the soccer coach when you need to do the soccer coach. But I should encourage you to take time, and give you the opportunity to get out to do the things that kind of set your soul on fire.

Jordan 32:19
It’s a strong way of putting it. But I don’t disagree. So you can so one of the things we can do is just be like, hey, like I noticed you haven’t done that thing that you like to do?

Rosanna 32:29
Yes, underwater basket weaving.

Jordan 32:31
Yeah. Or, you know, you You didn’t join the the softball team with the guys this year, you haven’t had Poker Night in a while or whatever that may be? Like, why don’t you do that? So almost like suggesting giving them permission to engage in that.

Rosanna 32:43
I like that giving that permission. You know, sometimes I you know, yeah, we talk ourselves out of it. But then when a spouse like says, Hey, like, I’m on board to support you with this, like, Why don’t Yeah, why don’t you go after it, it’s a good reminder that we are loved, we are supported. And we can take the time to do those things. Mm hmm. Good questions.

Jordan 33:01
What are your takeaways?

Rosanna 33:03
All right, takeaways. I think the biggest one is that life should contain moments where we can work and achieve, like, that’s one area that we can rest. Because it’s important, but then areas for us to play and have fun. So I think there’s like kind of those, those three aspects of it, where sometimes we just leave rest,

Unknown Speaker 33:24
and a play and play.

Rosanna 33:25
Yeah, achieve rest and play.

Jordan 33:27
You could do rest achieve and play and then it’s rap. Or you can rap Just remember to rap everybody.

Rosanna 33:35
And, you know, so we I mean, we could we could have talked more about like side hustles. And like, you know, when a hobby moves to a side hustle or pursuing a side hustle, but I think the biggest takeaway should be this, it’s okay to learn something for the sake of learning or to do something because it makes you happy. And not because you have to monetize it or produce something or get fame from it or admiration like you can do something that is just for you.

Jordan 34:00
So those are like external values. And but a hobby offers an internal value, which is at the end of the day, more important. Yeah.

Rosanna 34:08
And it’s, you know, a great form of self care. And so you know, just the way that 2020 has been, and how I think I anticipate 21 2021 beginning and maybe lasting for a while. I think it’s something really important that we should all take some time to think about in terms of self care and having a little fun.

Jordan 34:27
Absolutely. Well, we hope you enjoyed today’s conversation, and really looking forward to hearing about what some of your hobbies and your hustles might be nowadays. Take care everybody. Bye. Thanks so much for listening to today’s show. We hope you will use this conversation as a starting point for your own. We hope you’re encouraged to think and more intentionally.

Rosanna 34:50
If you want to learn more, you can visit our website, the relentless pursuit podcast comm where you can find notes on today’s show, plus additional blog posts and you can subscribe Our three members list.

Jordan 35:01
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Rosanna 35:04
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