Rosanna 0:15
Welcome to season three, episode six of the relentless pursuit podcast, “Live what you Love” an interview with Shannon and Greg Buth. In January of 2020, I saw a post by someone that has done photos for us before, and she was promoting House of Shan. And so I had started following this business just a little over a year ago. And House of Shan is empowering others to live what you love on a daily basis. Shannon has designed apparel that includes an imperfect heart on every piece. And the heart signifies a daily reminder to Live Your Passion, laugh every day, love deeply and to never quit your day dream. House of Shan also donates $5 from every purchase to a local women’s charity.

So the company was founded in January of 2020. We’re kind of closing out to the end of January 2021. And in that year, Shannon has donated over $20,000 to organizations.

Jordan 1:08
That’s a lot of money. This was one of my favorite conversations. And I felt privileged to speak to you know, sometimes we talk to just one person, it’s kind of an expert in the area or running with their vision. So this is really nice to talk to a couple and to see how they make it work behind the scenes and are still thriving as individuals and as a family as well. So we’ll tell you a little bit more about Shannon and Greg. They’ve known each other since they were just kids growing up in Minnesota, they’re highschool sweethearts. – It’s just like us – who found their way back to each other in their late 20s. And now they raised an incredible spirited, crazy crew of four boys together in Chicago’s Roscoe village neighborhood. Shannon made a career out of her passion for fashion, and worked for a California-based clothing company for most of her 20s. And then was the very first stylist at Trunk Club. She stepped back from work after the birth of their twins who were born 19 months after their first son. And Greg has worked in the trading industry for the last 20 years and has traded everything from soybeans to the euro dollar options on the floor of the Board of Trade.

Rosanna 2:16
So what I really loved about this interview is that Shannon started this business that wasn’t intended to be a business. And now her and Greg are working together to help build this brand. It’s been more than just some retail items. But it’s a business, a brand with a mission. And it’s inspiring other people to love, love people around them.

Jordan 2:38
Yeah, yeah, there’s a lot of really positive elements that have come together last year, it was really refreshing to hear their story.

Rosanna 2:45
So during this episode, you’ll hear about how House of Shan got started and how it evolved into a brand people are getting behind. You’ll hear about the role that having a mission and charity play in what they’re doing. Like you’ll also hear them talk about juggling business and family, especially during a pandemic, and the role that making mistakes plays in getting better learning and thriving.

Jordan 3:06
That’s right. So a lot to learn from. We hope you enjoy this interview. And as always stick around afterwards for a few of our thoughts and takeaways as well. All right, Shannon, and Greg, thank you so much for joining us here on the podcast today. Welcome.

Shannon 3:21
Thank you.

Greg 3:22
Thanks for having us. Yeah,

Rosanna 3:23
it’s so great to have you on the show about a year ago. Someone that I used as a photographer once for my kids that was a friend of a friend had posted that she was taking photos for this new business House of Shan had posted a little bit about it with some photos and you know, right away when someone posts about a new business I’m always curious to see you know, you know, What is she talking about? What is she what is she standing and getting behind and so I clicked on it and had started following you and over the last year have just seen House of Shan and live what you love explode. And so I reached out to you, and you reached right back out right away like a personal email from the like the woman behind the business. So kind so sweet and was like, Yeah, I’d love to do an interview. So thank you guys so much for being here today. Tell us a little bit about what house Shan is what the backstory is and a little bit about like this past year for you guys.

Shannon 4:15
Yeah, so um, well, basically, I would say House of Shan started as more of a community more than a brand. I started this moms group when my three oldest were babies and life was seems really hard. It seemed isolating. And so I started a moms group and it kind of grew and grew and basically the premise of it is getting women together to connect. I would have speakers come in and talk about relevant mom topics and we had a chance to have a glass of wine, have dinner, and be away from our kids, and, and just talk. So I feel like over the years that connection has grown into this, you know, kind of huge community of women and I decided in 2019 I decided I wanted to put it online, and kind of marry all the things that I love, you know, this community of women talk, you know, kind of post some about some of these topics that we, we share in our mom’s groups and have some of the speakers write articles. And then of course, share my love for fashion, kind of just put it all in one spot and reach more women. And it was really fun year in 2019, just kind of kind of exploring new things and doing new things like from, you know, my position is like mom, and you know, manager of the house and all of that. So, to kind of get out of my comfort zone. And the blog, it has this imperfect heart. And that’s always been kind of like the unofficial, I guess, logo for my blog that Greg’s brother helped me create. Greg’s brother’s a creative and he works in design. He’s awesome. And so it’s in the imperfect heart just kind of exemplifies, you know, nobody’s perfect. We’re all just doing the best we can. And, you know, just kind of like living our lives, even though, you know, social media will tell you a different story. This imperfect heart is just kind of embracing that, imperfect. So with this moms group, we do I do a mistletoe market every holiday season. And it’s a way to get everyone together for a little holiday party. And then kind of showcase some of the women that have different companies and small businesses, people make things, different ornaments and artists and things like that. So I had this idea this past holiday. I’m like, Well, what if I made this hard into a sweatshirt? So I talked to Greg’s brother. He was like, he was my ear. He was in town. Yeah, he was in town. Yeah. And so I was like, hey, Kev, what do you think about this idea for this sweatshirt? I have, you know, putting this heart onto a sweatshirt embroidering it on there? And he was like, Well, yeah, just do it. Let’s just go for it. And I feel like sometimes you need that person, right? To just force you to do something like that. Like he, I feel like if he would have been like, I don’t know, I probably would have done it.

Greg 6:59
He had a wholesale account due to his business with Alternative Apparel, and they got on and they picked on they like and ordered like 20. And they gave us the, you know, the vector file, and we found an embroidery shop and just made it.

Shannon 7:13
Yeah, so it was like it was like that. It wasn’t like some obviously, it wasn’t some big business plan. It was more of like, I kind of want to share this on a sweatshirt and just like in called the Live what you love sweatshirt. And I have a story behind that too. And I just I had this idea. I think it was just kind of like deep in my head. And I finally said it out loud. So and even then, like 20 sweatshirts seem so daunting. I was like, Oh my gosh, that’s a lot. You know, what if nobody buys them, and then this mistletoe market, I had this donation component where we kind of partnered with a shelter where we wanted to raise some money for them. And so I decided I wanted to put some of the proceeds, if anything sold back to this shelter, and we had a raffle anyways, we ended up raising $1,000 for the shelter. All of my sweatshirts all 20 of my sweatshirt sold, which I couldn’t believe it. And there was a waitlist after. So I had a talk with Greg after and after going to the shelter, and it just made me feel so good to just be able to donate that, you know, small amount of money, but it felt like I kind of made an impact. And I was like, I kind of want to just keep going with this and make some more sweatshirts, put them on my website, and then and then see what happens. And then honestly, I couldn’t believe it. Like if they just started selling and people it was word of mouth. People shared it I think because of the message behind it. And I always say when I went to write the card, because I wanted to have this meaning behind it. I went and I wrote down what I wanted it to mean. And I just I wrote it and I didn’t change a thing. And I can say it by heart because I know I you know I say it all the time. It’s an imperfect heart stitched over your heart, as a daily reminder to Live Your Passion, laugh every day, love deeply lift, others up, and don’t ever quit your day dream. And it was funny because I wrote it and it just like came out of me. I feel like it’s just been in there and I just, you know, so I feel like that is why this has grown over the year. I feel like this has been a tough year for all of us and we all kind of missed connecting with people. And it’s kind of been a way for people to share love with people in the mail. I’ve wrote so many sweet notes for people over the year and one of my friends said to me today she’s like, I feel like your your notes that you write could be a coffee table book someday I’m like, oh, that’d be kind of cool. It’s just so genuine like these the you know, when people are sick people have gathered around people and bought sweatshirts for all their friends to support a friend or celebrate something or just you know, send a birthday gift and it just it means so much to me.

Rosanna 9:52
I saw I saw an Instagram today you had like I looked like 20 boxes that one person bought something for like 20 people that like it was for Valentine’s Day or something like that, that she was sending out because there was like a meaning and a purpose behind it that it’s, you’ve created a brand but it’s it’s what it stands for is that what is impacting people and what people are flocking to at this point.

Shannon 10:15
Yeah, it’s so cool

Jordan 10:18
I was gonna say it just seems like that the the community that you had had started organizing is just like expanded through house Oceana through the like, just being able to have like something that you can gift and the message that that represents to one another.

Shannon 10:33
Yeah, absolutely.

Greg 10:35
Yeah. I mean, obviously, people love to buy something that has a purpose, right. And the way that it started even with like, those sweatshirts donated to that shelter, became, let’s donate $5, from every sweatshirt to the shelter, then it’s become let’s do it to feed the frontlines when the pandemic happened, and then it was my block, my hood, my city. And like you were saying, your network of people and the people you’re touching changes every month, because you keep picking different charities. And you keep spreading this message and this love and like, that’s part of the reason why I think it’s been so successful. I mean, who doesn’t like helping other people when you’re like buying something? Right? Like TOMS Shoes does that right? Every time you buy a pair of shoes, someone else gets a pair of shoes.

Shannon 11:30
Right? Yeah, it just feels I think it feels good. I feel like especially this year, it feels good. And I think people right now are wanting to support small businesses more than ever, you know, this holiday season was so great. And I think, you know, that’s attributed to people want everyone wanted to shop small this this holiday season. So yeah, it’s been it’s been incredible. And, and also, it’s really cool, like this House of Good Shepherd shelter that we donated to, and then we, our first couple months of when we started, we donated to them. And we were able to give them I think $3,000 is is what we started with. And then I decided every every year around November, December on the holidays, I want to circle back and donate to them again. So we just were able to donate another $3,000 to them. So it’s it’s been really cool. And they they’ve been so welcoming to me and make me feel like such a part of it. Like next week, I get to go and do an art class with the with the women at the shelter there. And yeah, so there’s like some meaning behind it. It’s been super cool.

Rosanna 12:32
So I mean, it started with the market that you did that you donated $5 for sweatshirts. And then once this grew, I mean, it would have been very easy for you to keep everything that you made for yourself. What inspired you to want to continue to give? Was it just like, you didn’t think twice about it? Or was it? Was it hard? Was it hard to let go?

Shannon 12:50
No, that’s that no one’s ever asked me that. That’s a great question. I feel like it just feels good to give like I’m definitely I feel like that’s a part of who I am. That makes me feel good is giving gifts to people and, and that sort of thing. So to be able to like to be able to do what I’m doing and be able to give back, it’s been awesome. And like right now we’re donating to Betsy Blankets, which is a dear friend of mine who is also our neighbor. And she started this Betsy’s blanket in honor of her mom after her mom passed away. And they give brand new bedding and blankets to the homeless, to shelter animals, to cancer patients. And it just feels good. And like, you know, we’ll try to do like every month or two change change. And we haven’t been you know, it’s not really planned out. It just kind of all happens organically, kind of with, you know what’s happening.

I don’t think we ever talked about. I mean, like we said, This wasn’t like, let’s start a business. Let’s start a brand. Let’s have an apparel brand or whatever. It kind of just has continued to grow like those 20 sweatshirts turned into 50. And I think then it was like, oh, let’s keep giving money to this charity. And then it became like, oh, people are really getting behind this. Right people not only did it turn into by, you know, by the middle ear, you’re selling really comfortable sweatshirts during a pandemic, that also are giving back to charity. Right? Like, there’s to that to everyone’s home. And now no one’s getting dressed up and –

Rosanna 14:32
You need seven days worth of sweatshirts!

Jordan 14:35
It did wonders for my sweats collection.

Greg 14:37
Exactly. So like, the timing of it wasn’t bad. Like, it wasn’t planned that way, but like you’re selling something that has a purpose and a meaning. And we have never struggled to figure out what the next charity is going to be. It’s all become super easy to like shift. And it just has made sense every time we’ve moved to the next charity, like, someone will contact us and we’re like, Oh, that makes sense for breast cancer awareness or that makes sense around winter to give to Betsy blankets and during, you know, the protests and unrest this summer, my block my hood, my city who I have relationship with the guy who started that. So that was super easy for us. And we’ve been involved with them before. So like, it’s all just like, figuring out how to do the sweatshirts after the market, what charities to donate to, and how we’ve grown that way. Like, it’s seemingly been like, it’s just made sense.

Jordan 15:36
Yeah it strikes me that, you know, a lot of businesses are, you know, they have a business plan, right, we need a product, and we need to sell it and we need to hit these like revenue targets. And then when we’re at a certain point, maybe we’ll look at, you know, giving back somewhere. But it seems like your story is the opposite, where you’re a lot of like building community and building into people. And then think of like, you know, how can we give How can we spread love and, you know, from that emerges, you know, House of Shan into the business that you’ve been building since then.

Rosanna 16:08
Yea. Kudos in 2020. You know, I saw that you gave over $20,000 to various organizations. I mean, that’s just incredible. So that is amazing.

Shannon 16:18
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, no, it’s been really cool. I think that is the best part by far. And then just seeing how proud people are to share when they’re wearing the imperfect heart or holding it in a cup with a cup of coffee. Hey, cheers, cheers.

Greg 16:37
Part of the draw of what Shannon has done, like, and is that basically everyone that gets one wants to share it. Like, someone gets one in the mail. It’s like, Instagram, or however they want to share it. But like, it’s people all over spreading the word because they just get behind, like, the logo and the message and the charity is just like, people do your advertising for you when you’re putting something out into the world, I think that they like, think is genuine and like authentic. Yeah, that’s seriously what it is. So that part has been awesome.

Rosanna 17:20
So obviously, this was kind of Shannon’s idea. It stemmed from this community of women that she had built and then the 20 sweatshirts, you know, bringing your brother in with almost like that permission of Yeah, you got to do it. So what is your role in all of this, Greg? Like, are you just the happy husband who was like, sure make a sweatshirt?You know, was it was it hard? Was it easy? Yeah, transpired?

Greg 17:41
At first? Yes. Like I said, it was like, Oh, well, she’s gonna do 20 sweatshirts and it was you know, I was just happy to see her getting into something I knew she loved because I know you know, she’s been in fashion her whole life and then it turned into Wow, like oh, that’s kind of nice. Like you’re making you know, like some extra money like grocery money whatever. And then it’s turned into Oh, we need to order like $5,000 worth of sweatshirts. How do we do that? Right and then like –

Shannon 18:18
And then it’s turned into oh my gosh, I need help I need help…

Greg 18:23
As its as its progressed, my role has changed a lot but like, you know, yesterday when you saw those boxes like I was part of the assembly line helping to do that.

Shannon 18:33
I should have probably showed that huh.

Greg 18:36
I’ve taken over like doing our all the taxes that go along with it and figuring out like when when we need to be charging sales tax and, you know, I bought way too many sweatshirts paying tax on on the wholesale side, because of the way we were using my brother at the beginning. Like –

Shannon 18:55
Just things you learn as like things you you know, it’s all these mistakes that people talk about with the small business all these like growing pains. We’ve you know, I mean, gosh, we’ve had a ton of mistakes. We’ve had tons of things happen already. You know, like, that’s, that’s real, but honestly, I feel like you’re not giving yourself like he helps with everything.

Greg 19:15
I do a lot of the customer service stuff like I’ll help out on her email like in responding to people that want to exchange and do all that stuff because she’s super occupied with people coming at her from all angles on Instagram and text messages and I think many people don’t realize from afar how much she’s actually doing. Like everyone thinks they’re like Shannon’s best friend, which is awesome. People text her being like, Oh, hey, can I get this show me like 10 of me like to go the website. Right and and that’s fine. Like that takes her away from a lot of like the other stuff.

Shannon 19:55
And to be honest, like filling orders. I mean, I’ve got my my table right there. Like I mean, that takes up, which is a good thing, because we have orders to fill. But I in Greg’s like, okay, at some point, we got to streamline this. These are like, again, the growing pains with small businesses, but I want to write a note with each with each, you know, I have my note card and I want to write everybody a personal note and Greg’s like, I think there’s probably going to be a point where you can’t do that anymore. I’m like, No, but that’s the best part, like a handwritten note, even if it’s something small, because I appreciate that. And I think that’s why people are buying this from us, as well as because they know it’s a small business. And we all appreciate a handwritten note. I mean, you know, like, we don’t get those very often anymore. So those types of things I take a lot of pride in, and I, you know, probably take way too long to pack each order. But we’ll streamline that we have, you know –

Greg 20:49
So, so, to that, I think we’ve also, you know, at the end of last year talked about what we wanted this year to look like. And I think the reason it’s worked is because we haven’t said, Oh, we want to double our sales, or we want to make this much money or what have you. It’s been more like we’re growing at our own pace. And we’re creating stuff as we go, like different sweatshirts and drinkware. And all this stuff, kind of just keep adding on to itself. But without the pressure of setting these expectations for ourselves, we’ve just been able to kind of continue to grow at a pace that like really works for us. And like that takes into account, kids being at home, me still having a job, things like that. Right. So like, being able to like run a business on your own terms like that, and not set expectations. Also, the fact that I’m helping her part time is a really good thing. Because if it was full time, and this was our only source of income, I think it becomes a job. And we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to do Oh, my gosh, we need to sell this much this year to support our family. Right. And at some point, I think it’s going to become that I do think at some point, this will be something that we’re doing together and like growing, but like, thankfully, it hasn’t been something where we’re like, oh, by the end of next year, we need to have this in sales so that we can.

Shannon 20:53
I think I think a lot of people that I’ve talked to that have small businesses where that that is obviously the stress, right, like you have a job where we can get insurance and things like that where this is this has been like we’ve been able to grow at our own pace. So yeah –

Greg 22:35
Like we need to hire an employee because she can’t be packing bags all day, because we can grow in better ways and do better things and touch more people. And she can do all the things she needs to do if she’s not standing there packing bags.

Jordan 22:50
Yeah. So not that it’s a hobby necessarily, but it kind of emerged from just this, this this this passion that you guys share in this vision that you had, and like you said, like organically evolved. And so now at this point, this time last year, you didn’t really know like, what was going to be come of it. But now that you can, now that you’ve lived that last year, you can better kind of maybe define like, Okay, this is what we enjoy, and want to retain. And this is where we see this going over the next year too.

Greg 23:19
Totally, I mean, I’ve realized I’ve had the same job for 20 years. I like it, I love the people I work with. But now that I’ve been doing this, like I didn’t think I would love trying to grow an apparel brand. But like it’s turned into that because like, I let people ask me, oh, you know, someone who’s not on Instagram or someone who’s brand who doesn’t really follow what’s going on? Oh, like, how Shannon’s like little business. Like,

Shannon 23:47
Like hold on, I’m doing our customer service!

Greg 23:51
It’s kind of like turning into a full fledged brand and a full time job for her. Which is amazing. But like that has its own challenges. So yeah –

Shannon 24:01
Yeah, I mean, especially with the boys at home all the time, right. I mean, that that’s kind of the, you know, where we’ve been trying to find some sort of balance. And that’s really hard for me, because I feel like I’m very type A like that, like I woke up at five this morning and came down here and immediately started working. Because, you know, as we all know, like we’re all trying to find these little, you know, gaps of time where we can get something done because we’re trying to do all the things there kids home all the time. So yeah, you know, it’s just trying to find some balance.

Rosanna 24:34
I was gonna say when you live what you love and you love what you do, I mean, which is very evident from the both of you like is it hard to walk away and set boundaries, especially when your business is in your basement? Yes, right. Like I can wake up at five like no makeup on in my pajamas looks like a hot mess, package orders get the kids fed.

Jordan 24:51
I give Rosanna a hard time because she’d be like, you know, on her phone in the kitchen and she’s like I’m working right now am. I’m like Well, this is kind of an awkward time and place to do that, but we really because you know, thanks to technology and just thanks. So it really the conditions for this last year like we have tried to find the ways to do that. So what’s what’s that looks like for you guys?

Greg 25:09
I’d say that’s the one thing that we struggle the most with, like, her job, besides packing orders stuff is being on Instagram responding to people, you know, scheduling different events, and it’s full time and like she could she could be on our phone or on our computer responding to people all day.

Shannon 25:28
Yeah, I know, you just have to put I mean, you I mean, which, you know, it’s easier said than done. You just got to put it away. You know, like, last week, we were watching movies, every, every night of the week with the boys, we watched a couple of good classics, and I’m like, I am putting my phone on the other side of the room. I mean, otherwise, I you know, you’re sitting and looking at your phone while you’re watching a movie. I’m like, I’m not even paying attention. So like, it’s, you know, with your time, it’s like, you know, just be in the moment, right?

Greg 25:56
We struggle with that. It’s hard, like, targeting time alone with the kids. Right? Like, one of the things we we always say, all the kids need more of is like, one on one time. And let alone us getting time with each other. Because

Jordan 26:16
God forbid.

Rosanna 26:16
I know that that was on my list. Like, how do you how do you keep your marriage thriving and not surviving? When, right this booms, but then you’ve got the boys. And we’ve said the same thing. Like they need one on one with each of us. But there’s four. So you’re like, totally outnumbered. Right?

Shannon 26:32
I don’t know the answer to that. Do you guys know that?

Rosanna 26:34
No. So but that’s, you know, we like asking people that because we’re like, well, they certainly they must know the answer, or they have it all together.

Jordan 26:41
But I think there’s something to not, you know, have something that you can like both be working on and working towards. And, you know, I don’t think that a lot of couples necessarily have that or we have like homes and you know, with with our kids, where, you know, we’re kind of working on parenting together. But to have like a united vision that you guys are collaborating on, it’s like an excuse to come together. And it’s sometimes it probably feels more like work than others. But I would say that that’s that’s a great excuse you have right there.

Greg 27:10
You guys are seeking it out. And it’s having the awareness of wanting to do it, right, like, very easy to like, come home from work and get into a routine of making dinner and doing the kids homework and going to bed and like but to step back and have the awareness of, hey, as a couple, we want to spend time together or as a couple or as a family. We know we need to get one on one time to each kid having that awareness. And then like you said, working towards something like that. That’s more than half the battle. Right? Like it makes you it makes it happen, right? Because if you don’t even think about it, then it’s just gonna go by the wayside.

Rosanna 27:47
So what are your boys think of all this? Like, you know, I, you know, I follow you on social media, and y’all know that it’s always prettier and more cool online? Do they know how cool You are? Are they? Are they repping the brand? are they telling their friends? Like how on board are they? How part of it are they?

Greg 28:05
A couple of them were the heart sweatshirts more than others. But all their friends are like in our neighborhood, right there, their circle of people, it’s so small, and all their parents and all those people are like such huge supporters of Shannon. So like, it’s, it’s rare that one of the kids that they hang out with comes to our house, or I see him when one of them doesn’t have a hard sweatshirt on.

Shannon 28:29
That’s that’s the sweetest I mean, that, and and honestly, when I, you know, obviously, when we first started doing this, and they were like, oh, let’s do some, some kids. I was thinking, I mean, I was I was thinking I didn’t think men or boys would probably wear the heart. I was more you know, a heart, it’s feminine, it’s on your chest. So many dudes wear the heart. It’s so cool. I mean, it’s all the time in these boys that are you know, at the age where they’re trying, you know, they’re kind of age or they like, want to be cool and whatever. And they’re all wearing my heart all the time. It just like, it’s, it’s the coolest. And I think, you know, also going back to what we were saying, I think, to for our boys to watch us do this together and to see Greg kind of take the backseat and like support what I’m doing and and for them to hear these conversations. I like, I think it’s great. You know, I think it’s, it’s great for them to see, you know, and I mean, sometimes Yes, there needs to be more balance. Sometimes. I work later than I should at night or whatever. But yeah, for the most part, it’s it’s, it’s, I feel like they’re fully on board. They’re, they’re really into it.

Greg 29:36
Maybe they think it’s cool, right? Like, yeah, they’re wearing their mom’s sweatshirt, like when their teacher will be wearing the sweatshirt sometime. And they’ll like come and tell us or it’s just, it’s it’s one of those things that there’s not a whole I mean, minus, you know, the time it takes for us to do it. There’s not a ton of negatives to it, right. Like you’re you’re teaching your kids that You can create something from nothing, you can do something you love, like your mom loves fashion, she created this out of nowhere. Your parents can work together. Like, they couldn’t be more like, excited about super cool.

Rosanna 30:18
I mean, what example that’s, that’s for them as, as young men like as they grow older, right? And then they get interested in girls and they’re looking for a partner someday, like, you know, like, Oh, I want someone like that my dad has in my mom, like, you know, and I’m going to support them, and I’m going to build them up, and I’m going to push them to do great things. Like, those are going to be some really cool, cool kids some really great men.

Shannon 30:38
I love that. You know, that it’s a good example like,

Greg 30:41
And it’s not taught, but like, it’s, it’s good for them to understand their feminine side to understand that there is it’s okay to wear a heart or to wear pink or to feel be sensitive, or do the quote unquote, like, those kind of things like, men don’t teach their boys those things. Right? at all. Like that’s, I mean, I should say, most men of like, our generation didn’t get taught those things by their parents. And this, that’s not at all why this started, but I’m just saying that through this conversation, it’s one of those things that like, they’re gonna absorb that with without even knowing it. Yeah.

Jordan 31:30
So do they, do they help with any part of the business the process at all?

Shannon 31:35
A little bit, like once a while have them

Jordan 31:39
It’s a little awkward

Rosanna 31:40
Sometimes you help by staying out of the way.

Shannon 31:44
No, like, put a bunch of like, pins in a jar.

Rosanna 31:52
Age appropriate types of things.

Shannon 31:54
Right? They’ll be like, oh, Caden full there, okay. Oh, yeah. My type A and me, but yeah, they’re great. Like, I feel like they’re always drawing pictures of hearts. And they’re just they’re into it. They’re always they see in perfect hearts everywhere. That’s what I love to mom look a heart, you know. So it’s, it’s been cool. From you know, from that perspective?

Rosanna 32:15
So what motivates you on the hard days, and the days where there’s a lot of orders, and people are constantly asking you for things and looking for referrals, and the kids are everywhere, and Greg’s busy with work? What what gets you through? What part of all of this kind of keeps you centered?

Shannon 32:33
That’s a good question. I’d like to know the answer.

I mean, I think it’s truly just because most days, I still pinch myself, I can’t believe that this has grown into what it has, and that people, you know, are sharing this and so I think it’s the message and the community. I think that’s what that’s, you know, what keeps me keeps me going. And honestly, I I take pictures often of notes that I write to people, because that all those just melt me, like some of these notes that I write when people you know, sending love to someone like and I get to do that, right. I get to be the person I get to send this love from this person I and be a part of this, like that makes my day. You know, like packing all those boxes of love last night? Well, we did sorry. I don’t give them enough credit. Um, so yeah, that’s what keeps me motivated.

Greg 33:29
I think. For for Shannon, who was in the fashion industry. Yes. Like selling that gives a Midwest rep for a clothing line. To have people like say to her, like, you believe you have your own brand. Like that’s the pinch yourself. Someone told her like a little over a year ago and she’s this woman who’s she’s not a clairvoyant or anything like that. But she’s like one of those kind of mystical people that got to know Shannon a little bit. She’s like, really tall. She’s like, you’re gonna have a clothing line some day.

Jordan 34:10
What? When was this?

Shannon 34:11
Yeah. I think she is a clairvoyant.

Rosanna 34:14
So a little over a year ago. Oh, wow.

Shannon 34:16
Yeah. So anyway, yeah.

Rosanna 34:20
Well, right, cuz when you started House of Shan How old were you?

Shannon 34:23
I was 40. Right. I was 40. Yeah. So I mean, that’s,

Greg 34:29
That’s when it started? Yeah right around there.

Shannon 34:30
Yes. Yeah. But I’m 40 so that’s the other thing too, is I feel like, you know, for people listening, it’s like, you know, I feel like a lot of times women, you know, especially, men too, but you know, when we’re home, we’re home for a number of years and you kind of feel so out of things like you feel out of the workforce you feel out of, you know, like, Oh gosh, what do I have to offer right? And I think like with for me at 40 like I got this like new confidence. I did. I was like, You know what, like, I, like I, who cares what other people think I’m gonna I’m gonna put, you know, like, and I think that I kind of had that going for me too. It’s just like, just do it, you know, and I feel like, I think, like I said in the beginning, we talk ourself out of things and like, this is proof like, you know, at 40, you know, 41 years old, you can start something. And, you know, just believe in yourself, I guess, right?

Jordan 35:26
Yeah, I think it’s funny because in to an extent, like, we almost realized at that point, then like, the world is waiting for someone to, to, like, help bring us together and help give us you know, common cause and inspiration and to love and to be. I mean, I would, I would argue that this is more than I got a message for a brand, but you are genuinely like leaders of that, you know, people are following and inspired by and I think probably being able to, not to spread love, but live better lives according to like, just the model that you set for them.

Shannon 36:00
Thank you.

Rosanna 36:02
Well, yeah, I mean, we’re so we’re not yet 40. We’re both 38. And, you know, like the idea for a lot of the things we’ve done, like, you know, you go to school, right, you have your degree, you work in that degree. Same thing with me, I had kids, so I was a teacher at one point, and I stopped that and then just have dabbled here and there with like an Etsy shop. And now I do wedding and events like is like, what am I? What am I doing? What do I have to offer? And you know, someone saying, like, you know, I could see you doing this, why don’t you just try it, or, you know, someone hired me to do something one time, and then it became something and it’s, sometimes we hold ourselves back from trying, because they’re like, well, I can’t do that. But then just figuring out that, that you really can –

Jordan 36:42
Like I’ve offered to help with her event planning, I’m like, I could totally, you know, help you decorate. This one, I think I’ll go solo. I’ll have a role to play some day.

Rosanna 36:56
But you know, you know, in our 20s, we would have thought like by 40, you’re supposed to be at a certain spot, or get all together or have worked this many years in your industry and then be at the top of your game. And what I’m finding when I look around is a lot of people have reinvented have totally shifted have found something that your 20 year old self is not the same as your 40 year old self. And so knowing that those opportunities are there, or if there’s something in your heart that you can create that opportunity for yourself too.

Shannon 37:23
Absolutely. Love that.

Greg 37:26
I mean, for me, it’s like I’ve been doing the same thing for 20 years, like you said, and aren’t my industry at being a trader has totally changed. So like now I’m at the point where I’m like, deciding like, is this? I don’t really like this anymore, right? Like, why do I like it? And do I want to keep doing something I don’t like? Or do I want to keep doing something, you know, for X amount of time? Or do I want to just dived in headfirst with what she’s doing, because we love it. And right, and like, that gets a little scary, right? You’re like, Oh, no, I only know. Now I’m learning how to do other things. But like –

Shannon 38:08
No, but it’s it’s funny though, because like, again, like we just got new tissue paper. Very exciting. You guys. And I’m like, and it’s you know, this cute, like imperfect heart printed paper. And I’m like, that was all Greg, like he does these like he he’ll be, he’ll be on you know, a website and come out. It’ll be like, Oh, we should get this. I’m like, perfect. Like, he’s a creative too. You know, he’s just been using this other side of his brain for so long that I feel like it’s all coming out.

Greg 38:35
I think one of the you had asked earlier, what some of the roles. I think one of my roles too is and I’ve gotten her to take a little more risk with

Shannon 38:45
He pushes me.

Greg 38:46
In a good way. Like, she’ll be like, I’ll be like, how many of these should we buy? And she’ll be like, Oh, it’s

Rosanna 38:54
Two is probably more expensive than 12 or 25. So…

Greg 38:58
I like to be somebody like, Alright, we’re gonna buy 25 Beach. Yeah. And you’re gonna sell them because everything you bought, like you shown that you’re gonna do it and like, and then it’s gonna be easier as we move forward, because we’re not gonna have to worry about ordering again and going through this again.

Shannon 39:14
Yeah, so like, and then I typically say you were right.

Jordan 39:19
Those magic words.

Greg 39:23
And that’s the fun part for me, too, is like, I have helped with some of the stuff. So like, for me, it’s been fun, like, the drink where the tissue or something like that, like, I like figuring out how to find it, how to get it made, how much we need to order to make it cost effective. You know, figuring out like that side of it. Like that part’s interesting to me. Yeah, I don’t think that’s interesting to her at all. You know what I mean? Like, right,

Jordan 39:50
So you found it a nice way to compliment one another?

Shannon 39:54
I feel like that’s like marriage and now it’s like, you know, finding your role to like in this new you know, business to it’s like you figure it out as you go, right? Yeah.

Rosanna 40:04
So well, and even to Greg’s point about, yeah, working in the same industry for a long time, and now it’s changing and kind of even having that moment of, do I want to keep doing this. Sure. Like, sometimes I even think of like, our parents generation probably worked the same job, or the same career for their whole lives, was never questioning Is this what I really want to be doing? And saying no to a sure thing, instead of leaping for something that may or may not work out, but when you’re the husband and you carry, like, he’s got great insurance, and benefits, it’s like, how do you? How do you say no to that, you know, is the risk worth it? So I think sometimes, as the men in our lives, that’s, you know, you don’t want to close the door too quickly. Right. But if if things are trending a good way for House of Shan how exciting, you know.

Shannon 40:52
The company that I work at, to smaller trading company, and some of our best friends, you know, from our early 20s, through our to now and they still are like our best friends like, and we had all of our life events together, right? We had marriages and kids and we went through all the same things together. Some of those people, some of my best friends that I worked with, for 15 plus years, have started to leave. They’ve started to leave to do other things. And so…

kind of following their passions –

Following their passion, doing the type of stuff that you’re talking about. So like, prior to house Shan, I’d always been like, well, maybe I would consider doing that too. But I just have no idea…

Rosanna 41:38
Hadn’t found your thing.

Shannon 41:39
Right, like would it be. I’m pretty good at what I do. I’m not great, otherwise, I wouldn’t be doing anymore. You’re a great trader, you don’t have to trade. But prior to seeing her kind of create this and working with this on her, I’d always been like, well I would have no idea what I want to do. So that’s been kind of cool for me to to understand that, like you guys have said like, toward at 40. Like, there is more stuff out there. And I can do more than what I’m doing right now. And I have the ability to do it if I want.

Rosanna 42:19
So what would you say are your biggest takeaways from the last year? If you like what made it like an aha moment or something that maybe was like a, you know, a light bulb went off? And it was like, this is this past year? This? Is it? Like, what would it be? Is there anything that really stands out?

Shannon 42:35
I mean –

Greg 42:37
I, for me, it was a couple of times, and I was like placing orders for sweatshirts. And I and I looked at like the amount of inventory we had bought over a very short period of time. And I was like, kind of took a step back and be like, I didn’t even blink. Like I didn’t even think about it. I was buying it. I was like, that was a lot. That was a lot of sweatshirts. And I kind of had those moments where I was like, this is really like, this is going to turn into like a real business. To me, like the moment where I realized it was like, went from hobby passion project selling 50 sweatshirts to like, I was witnessing it become a brand. That to me was like and there wasn’t a one moment, but it was some of those moments where I was like, okay, like, we just bought a lot of sweatshirts, like, this is more than just for fun at this point.

Shannon 43:39
Yeah. And I mean, gosh, I mean, I think I’ve had so many over this year, because I, you know, like I said, I still pinch myself. I think there’s been so many beautiful moments within this year. And I feel like a couple that stand out are like, you know, I had a group of women in Simpsonville, South Carolina, it like makes me cry thinking about it. One of their friends is going through a pretty, pretty intense cancer treatment right now. And they all they bought, I think there was probably 60 or 70 people that bought these green t-shirts with a pink heart on them men, women, kids, they all bought them to wear every time she had a chemo day. And they still wear them every time she has a chemo day like that, to me is so cool. Like they bought the imperfect heart to signify their support and their love towards her right so for me, like, I like I you know, I can’t believe that like it’s, it’s so beautiful. And that’s why this all is happening. So like, I’ve had a few moments like that or several moments like that over this year that touched me so deeply.

So that like t shirt, when you made it was called the Chris-T which is two Her best friend’s name, and it was like, it was like a friendship t. So like, people get behind it. Right? Like 60 people. Yeah, never wearing the friendship t when their friend is having chemo like, it’s cool. I’m getting teary eyed thinking about.

Rosanna 45:16
Well, because it’s not just a T shirt, t shirt, especially now when people can’t be together. And if you’re sick, you can’t be with someone else. And you can’t write a text sometimes doesn’t do it. But you know, to get a text of somebody else wearing that T shirt on that day. And people are rallying it’s it’s life changing to have that kind of support.

Jordan 45:34
Well, it’s really special to to note, like, just to know those stories as well. I mean, I don’t think very many brands can do that a lot of times. So it’s like you, you bought a T shirt because you needed something warm. But in this case, there there is a story behind a lot of the purchasing, and you get to hear those and be a part of how they play out.

Shannon 45:52
Yeah, yeah. It’s pretty cool. So I’m very grateful. Yeah, it’s been so much fun.

Rosanna 45:58
So if people want to learn more about House of Shan where, where should they go? How can they find out what charities that you’re donating to each month? How can they order? How can they help you spread awareness about living what you love?

Shannon 46:09
Yeah, um, you can go to house of Shan calm. And we have a charities tab so you can see all the charities we’ve donated to you can see the current charity we’re donating to, you can hit the shop button, if you want to check out our shop. We also have a really cool tab that was just added that I love looking at too. It’s the LWYL tab, or LWYL love tab. And it’s just showing all all sorts of different families and kids and people wearing the imperfect heart. So –

Rosanna 46:38
I think I saw a couple celebrities on there some Chicago celebrities wearing wearing that sweatshirt.

Shannon 46:45
That’s been kind of cool, too. There’s been a couple people that have gotten behind it. Yeah, I mean, pinch me right.

Greg 46:53
Like our friends who knows celebrities give it to them. But it’s still always cool when people –

Shannon 47:01
A friend of a friend Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, what is that? Yes.

Rosanna 47:04
It’s not what you know, it’s who you know, you just gotta share. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us today for telling us about your story the way that you guys work together how you’re you’re doing this amongst you know, a pandemic and and kids and still spreading these messages of love and positivity and and really being you know, exactly what people need right now, even though they didn’t know they needed it.

Shannon 47:30
Thank you. It’s so great to be here.

Greg 47:32
Thank you for having us also, like, I think we feel honored that people like yourselves that are doing something so cool and following some of your dreams and having a podcast with think of us. And like I read the email that you first sent. And it was so thoughtful, like and well written and just made us both feel super proud. So thank you.

Rosanna 47:58
Yeah, well, hopefully when this pandemic thing blows over, we’ll come down to the city and meet you in person.

Jordan 48:04
Big day for us when we suburbanites get to come down to the city.

Rosanna 48:10
Well, thank you guys both so much. We will make sure that all of our friends and followers, check out House of Shan and see what you’re up to in 2021.

Shannon 48:18
Thank you.

Rosanna 48:19
Thank you, guys.

Jordan 48:23
Okay, well, we hope that you are feeling as refreshed and as inspired as we are after that conversation with Shannon and Greg.

Rosanna 48:31
Yeah, you know, it’s funny, sometimes what you see on social media isn’t always what you get. But I felt like what, who they really are, as a couple and what they’re doing with their business and as a brand is, I mean, they’re, they’re even cooler than than what they’re putting out there.

Jordan 48:46
Like, we talked for an hour or so. And it’s like, you know, I could I could spend a little more time with you. Yeah, well, I mean, like, I’ve learned a little bit more from you.

Rosanna 48:53
That the fact that they do live close, and hopefully once the world is back to normal, I definitely look forward to meeting them in person and hearing more about what they’re doing and how they’re doing it.

Jordan 49:01
Yeah, and seeing where it goes from here. So there were several things that we both kind of took away from this conversation and I I almost don’t know where to start but I think maybe the thing I’ll start with what what struck me the most and to maybe earlier in the conversation was that Shannon had talked about even you know before House of Shan it really became a thing she was just kind of on her own finding ways to just bring people together and House of Shan is not doing something different now it’s that’s kind of what’s emerged and continues to I think bring like rally people around one another and rally them around some I would say some positive concepts and positive feelings of love and togetherness and community. And so I was I was really just interested in in in that aspect. And I’m inspired by people who you know, almost like for the I want to say for the fun of it, but like, just because that’s what they want to do they want to bring people together and create something good. And obviously, she’s been doing that for some time. And that really kind of took off in the way that it did over the last year.

Rosanna 50:11
Yeah well we live in a world now where people can be pretty independent. We don’t need to rely on other people for things like we used to. But what she found after being at home with the first three boys is that she felt lonely, and she needed to feel connection. And so knowing that she needed that she, you know, that let her know that other people needed that too. And so then that’s kind of what she’s doing now with her merchandise and with her brand. I mean, in a time when small businesses have been closing their doors, and have been, you know, just overwhelmed by the pandemic, and what’s happening, House of Shan not only launched during that time, but is growing and thriving.

Jordan 50:47
Yeah, I think that tells you something, I mean, because you can, you can get certain types of apparel from almost anywhere, but you can’t get what House of Shan really offers. And that shows you to just go and if what you’re saying that it is, I think I mentioned this in the interview, like that is a type of leadership as well. Like if you know, like, there’s a bunch of people who are all kind of thinking or feeling the same thing, and to step forward and be the one to rally those people together, behind like a common cause, and to build that community, I think they really says something.

Rosanna 51:16
Well, and they mentioned this, too, is you know, Greg has a great job that affords them, you know, insurance and benefits and a roof over their heads. And so House of Shan has never been about, like hitting a certain number of sales, you know, sometimes when your business is around, you know, making a certain number of sales to hit a certain point so that you can feed your family like the pressure is on. And sometimes maybe you get lost in like, what your mission and what your message is. But this, you know, they just kept following this. What she had started with House of Shan, you know, to the next thing into the next thing and just kept saying yes, when it felt right. And so it continues to be about a mission and people and when a mission, and people are your focus, it’s easy to find fulfillment, it’s easy to find purpose. And it’s easy to love what you do.

Jordan 51:59
Yeah. So how did you phrase it to me? It’s like moving, moving towards the vision, right? Because as, as they continue down this path, they realized, how do we describe like almost accidentally, or almost like reverse? They didn’t really intend on starting, what has become over the last year. But as that emerged, like, moving towards that, embracing that and finding ways to more intentionally build into it.

Rosanna 52:24
I mean, it’s there wasn’t a plan, a clear plan for this or a direction or like, a year from now, this is what we’re going to be doing. But but now they’re starting to look at that, because it’s it’s continued to emerge. So they just keep taking steps in the direction as doors open. They continue to say yes, as it leads them by doing podcasts and, and other things and spreading the word.

Jordan 52:42
Yeah. And I think we talked about this too, when we brought it up, like, Alright, so you’ve donated $20,000, within the past year. That’s a lot of money, don’t you…right, in that sense, I think like man, like, what, what could I really do with that? And just their sense of like, no, like, that’s the question almost didn’t make sense to them. Like what, you know, what else could you do with that? Or is there any sense of, of, you know, wanting to, you know, with, I guess, like, withhold that in a sense for your own benefit? Because no, it’s like that – doesn’t, that’s that’s not the point. The point is to bring people together and to do good. And what has emerged from that is a business that were kind of figuring out as we go. And to me, that’s also inspiring to to be to be like that. The point is to give to in a selfless kind of way, find how we can enact some good within our community.

Rosanna 53:36
Yeah, I mean, what it’s so obviously, she’s, they’re both able to donate large sums of money. And they pick a different organization and nonprofit each month, kind of depending on the season, and kind of and what’s going on. But living what you love, like the brand and the merchandise people are sending and spreading love to others while supporting great causes. So she talks about stories of people going through cancer treatment, and family and friends all buying the same sweatshirt. And when that person is going through treatment on Thursdays, they all wear it. So it’s people are rallying behind other people and the people that they love, you know, even they’re getting their kids on board. They have you know, little boys and little girls things. They have other merchandise like people are sending love with the intention of also spreading love, right and a message of giving and a message of open open handedness instead of closed mindedness.

Jordan 54:24
Yeah, yeah, I really like the way that you’re putting that into to me and hopefully to you as well. Like that’s, that’s inspiring, like, my take away is just like, okay, like building sort of a platform or a way to facilitate love in community. That’s a beautiful thing.

Rosanna 54:38
Yeah, I mean, it really stems from what we’ve been trying to talk about during love month with loving our neighbors loving each other loving ourselves and you know, even how to love people that we we don’t yet know, right? buy, buy something from her and $5 from that purchase is going directly to a charity and you can hop onto her website and see, you know what charity is being supported that month and maybe that even you know, gets you to Thinking about well, why not just make a donation to that charity as well?

Jordan 55:03
Absolutely. And that is a little bit of our model this year as well. And like one of our goals, I think, is anything that’s maybe is motivation, for me, at least to like, stick with our goal this year and to see it through and find a charity each month that we can get behind and we can support financially as well.

Rosanna 55:23
Yeah, so they can, if you guys are listening, you can check our website, and you can see what charities we are donating to each month throughout 2021.

Jordan 55:31
Absolutely. All right. Well, again, we hope that you enjoyed the conversation that we’re able to share with you with Shannon and Greg. And, as always, we hope that you give us a little bit of feedback and love about what you’re learning and what you are pursuing as well.

Rosanna 55:46
Okay, have a great day. See you next week.

 

Rosanna 0:14
Hello and welcome to season three, Episode Five of the relentless pursuit podcast, “The Enneagram and Understanding Yourself.” So, about three years ago, now someone had asked me what my enneagram type was. And I kind of looked at them. And I said, ummm…Yeah, I have no idea what they were talking about. And they talked about the enneagram, which was a type of personality test to kind of help you understand yourself a little bit better, like what some of your traits are, and what your strengths and weaknesses are, for the purpose of kind of growing and understanding how you relate to other people.

Jordan 0:51
That used to be a question sometimes, right? Like, back in the day, someone say, what’s your type? And they were really asking you like, what kind of person you’re attracted to? Right?

Rosanna 1:00
Oh, yeah. What’s your type? Tall, dark and handsome.

Jordan 1:02
Right. So now when someone asks you, what’s your type? That’s not what they’re asking.

Rosanna 1:06
No, they’re, well, they’re asking you about you and your personality. I think like I remember in college, right? There was like types like INJF for like a leadership quality

Jordan 1:14
Like TTMSQR?

Rosanna 1:16
Yeah, something like that. Yeah.

Jordan 1:19
There’s been a lot of like personality tests and waited ways to try to categorize and describe ourselves over the years. So this is one that’s been popular for a really long time. Its origins, I understand are just unknown and ancient, in a sense. But it’s had a popular resurgence over this past generation too.

Rosanna 1:38
But three years ago, and I read the book, and then I was like, kind of learning about my type. And then I remember telling you like, Oh, I think you’re you’re this type. And I think our kids might be that type. And you just looked at me with your kind of Jordan-esque disapproval.

Jordan 1:51
Arrogance, go ahead. Yeah.

Rosanna 1:53
And was like, add that it’s like a horoscope. Like, maybe it’s right, maybe it’s not like that could be true about anybody, and you kind of just brushed it off.

Jordan 2:01
Right. And I do have skepticism about most things that are new. And a friend even reintroduced us to the idea of the enneagram as well. And it was interesting, because that was my reaction as well. Like you can kind of read a description, and it’s relatively easy to write a description that most people can look at and say, Yeah, like that, that fits me. That’s where the popularity of horoscopes comes in. So for fun, just as we get into this episode, I went ahead and I looked up the horoscopes for both of us today.

Rosanna 2:32
Oh, well, that’s fun.

Jordan 2:33
It doesn’t really have much to do with what we’ll get into with the enneagram. But for fun, since we never actually look at our horoscopes, I thought it would be good. So do you want to get yours first? Well, we’ll go with you first. Sure, you are a Sagittarius. Right. So as of today, it says you may be touched by a person.

Rosanna 2:54
Not the kind of touching, you’re thinking.

Jordan 2:55
Oh well, it’s all about how you interpret it. You may be touched by a person who exudes the kind of determination produced by a combination of spiritual and intellectual strength and faith. This is what is meant when people speak of a leader of great integrity, the encounter with this person is likely to inspire you to commit yourself wholeheartedly to some good work, perhaps a charity. So brace yourself, Rosanna, you’re gonna be inspired today.

Rosanna 3:21
Now I’m waiting for someone to knock at the door and inspire great things today.

Jordan 3:27
Alright, so here’s my being a Capricorn have a different horoscope. It says, Have you been lethargic lately? No. If so, today is your wake up call? Oh, good. You will be alert and clear about the task at hand, you understand that your help is urgently needed, and that there’s no time to waste, you can expect to pour a great deal of energy into a single well defined goal today. Okay. Looking forward to that. That might be a first. Okay. So these are these are kind of exciting. They’re, they’re captivating, and in a sense, they’re they, you know, you can take this as personally as you want to.

Rosanna 4:07
Yeah, I mean, I just felt completely confused by hearing it. But if we’re thinking about this, as opposed to the enneagram, which we have been looking at the last few days together, and you getting to know it, you can obviously see there’s a great difference between something that seems rather random and could or could not apply to anyone than what the enneagram is trying to do.

Jordan 4:30
Yes. And so I want to present those horoscopes as a way to just demonstrate to our listeners that the enneagram is different. I would say that I was a enneagram skeptic, in a sense, that’s before I even like looked into it. Once I examined a little bit, I can see that there is substance and value there. Although I think my my view of it now is still a little bit different than yours. And we’ll get into that when we talk about when we talk about our types.

Rosanna 4:56
Well, I think the whole point of it is it’s it’s to help you recognize like patterns in your personality. And it’s really trying to pair nature versus nurture. So like the environment in which you were raised coupled with the unique set of traits that you’re born with. And so right, like what you’re naturally born with, and what I’m naturally born with, maybe similar, maybe different. And those are cultivated different ways growing up. And so, you know, I think we spend a lot of our lives unsure of who we really are. And we talked about this with the stories we tell ourselves where it’s like, this is what people have told you you are, this is maybe the story that you’ve ascribed to based on different experiences. But I feel like in the last two to three years, like I’ve come into my own in understanding a little bit more about who I am, what makes me tick, what stresses me out what I need from people, even what I need for myself. And so things are making more sense to me about like, who I see I am and where I see I’m going. So I feel like something like this can help me feel more secure, in like naming what I need. But also realizing some of my weaknesses, too. Yeah. And so it’s funny, like when I read some of the weaknesses of my type, I can identify with them. And I don’t think that other people may be identified the same way that I do. And so it’s nice to be able to kind of put a name to those things and to understand, and then if you’re reading the book and the types, and you kind of see what my weaknesses are like it helps you understand how to better love me and how to better care for me. And so I think that’s really the whole point of this episode is like, we have to understand ourselves, you know, they say that the most important relationship you have is with yourself. 5-10 years ago, I would have laughed, I’d been like, that’s just garbage. Like That doesn’t even make sense.

Jordan 6:38
It sounds silly, yeah. And I think the way that we we think about this, like nowadays as compared to just say, like a generation ago, or even like when we were younger, you know, where we’re kind of interested in or asking ourselves questions as individuals, but I would even say like culturally to, that we would not have done in a previous era. And so I think that’s in part, like leads to the popularity of the enneagram. And, but I think the popularity can also ascribe to just that it is practical. It’s not the end all be all of how you define yourself, but it is a tool for gaining insight into yourself and the important people in your life.

Rosanna 7:19
So if you’re listening, you know, this is the question I kind of have for you, as we go into this as How would you describe yourself? You know, what are some of the words you would use to describe yourself? You know, do you know yourself as well as, as you say you do? Yeah, right? Or do we look to the people around us to give us a more accurate depiction of maybe who we are? And maybe more importantly, like, Are you the person your dog thinks you are? You know,

Jordan 7:44
That’s a high calling right there?

Rosanna 7:47
Having a dog has changed my life. So that’s, you know, that’s what I got to live up to every day, who does my dog think I am. But before we dive personally into, you know, who we are –

Jordan 7:56
So we’ll both talk about our types.

Rosanna 7:58
– Let me just outline the basic types, and I won’t even define them, but I’ll just give you kind of a broad overview of what it is. There are nine different types. And they say that you’re not going to necessarily fit into just one type, they might say that you might touch upon a couple, but one is your dominant, and then they’ll call like other ones, your wings, your wings, your wings. What do they not say that?

Jordan 8:22
Well? No, I’m just repeating. Okay, your wings – So by wings, you mean like your, your, your, you have

Rosanna 8:30
like a dominant trait. And then you have these other things you kind of like, yeah, like you lean into a little bit where it’s like, you might mostly reside here, but you have traits of these other ones that that stand out that you’re not just a mix of all of them.

Jordan 8:43
So that makes sense and that acknowledges the complexity that that is the human personality. I think I’m going to use the word like “wing” to describe a lot of things like the and I think I sent you this before. So I want to do like what do you what do you want for dinner? Like how about Turkey-wing-cornbread.

Rosanna 9:00
Tacos-wing-French fries.

Jordan 9:02
I would like sex-wing-cuddling

Rosanna 9:05
Oh, okay. There we go. Yes. Let me just name these types –

Jordan 9:08
It’s we name the dominant and the supplement boundaries of life. Okay, sorry. All right.

Rosanna 9:13
Nine personality types. Number one, the reformer, which is also known as the perfectionist, so you know, does that does that you know, shout out to you that that’s who you are.

Jordan 9:22
So these wait hold on these these nicknames for these types are these can change, right, depending on who’s defining it who’s writing it, but these are, in general, like the kind of generic one word descriptions?

Rosanna 9:35
Correct. Okay. So type one, the perfectionist, type two, the helper type three, the achiever, four, the individualist, five investigator, six loyalist, seven enthusiast, eight Challenger and nine Peacemaker. And then, I mean, you I mean, we could go we could probably talk about this for days. I mean, it’s very intricate and you can get into a lot of other things. There’s also like, centers like, Are you an instinctive person, a feeling person or a thinking person. And then then when they draw this out, it’s certain numbers fall into each of these centers. And then there’s a dominant emotion as well. Which means when you cope with hard things, you either respond in one of these three ways. Is it like anger or rage? Is it shame? Or is it fear? So like, talks you through, like, how you lead? Is it like with your head with your heart? And then how do you respond? Is it out of like, anger, shame, or fear, and so like where your number is, might show you a little bit about how you respond to certain situations in your life.

Jordan 10:35
So this can become relatively complex relatively quickly, if you want it to be, but it can also be at least like at first blush, like a really simple insight into some core elements of who you are.

Rosanna 10:47
Yeah, more of just a jumping off point for kind of understanding yourself a little bit better. Okay. So why don’t you go first, why don’t you talk about right you took in order to figure out your type, you basically can take a series of quizzes. So why don’t you just talk about your experience and what you found and what it tells you?

Jordan 11:05
Okay, so, like I said, I was a bit of a skeptic, and then I started looking into it a little bit more. And you know, it, I think, being able to say, like, I’m type one, or I’m type three, like there’s a certain security in that, because then then you’re you’re defined and it maybe it gives you kind of this, this cozy box through which you can understand yourself. And I – but I’ve taken three different quizzes, and each quiz yielded a different type for me that was dominant. So that’s why I’m still on the fence with like, you know, kind of declaring, like, I’m this type, or, you know, buying in too much to any single description. And, in even though the books that we looked at acknowledge, like it, it’s complicated, you’re a human being, you are complex. So it’s really difficult to just categorize this into nine flat distinctions. So the first set of description that I had the first quiz I took said, I’m a type five, which we’ll talk about the most, because that’s what you see the most in me. But then the second one I took told me that I am a type nine. And then the third one, I took only one, type three. And I looked at the descriptions for those. And it’s kind of interesting as you read these descriptions, because there’s definitely certain parts that you can relate to, in these descriptions. And as I read the descriptions for five and three, and nine, I’m like, Oh, yeah, like these, there’s, there’s ingredients in each of these that I feel like are really true. And, you know, part of the reason why I do you subscribe to this is because then I’d read the descriptions for like one and two and four, and all the ones that I was not, and I’d be like yeah, those are definitely not true about me. So it’s almost like it’s not your your 100%, one type and then 0% of the others. But I would say I’m like, you know, 90-some percent of five, and three and nine, and then like very little percent of the other ones as well. So it’s a it’s a mixture, I have a rainbow of types within me.

Rosanna 13:07
Well, and, you know, I’ve known you a long time. So like, I think you’re a very complex person, and complicated in some ways. And there are things that I recognize about you that other people do not understand. My parents have known you as long as I’ve known you. And it’s just interesting sometimes, like they don’t, they don’t get your reasoning or understanding behind some things. And I just, I have to tell them like, well, this is what you have to understand like, this is the way he processes it. This is the way this is the way he comes to his end result. And so like, I’ve got to give him the time and space to figure that out. Or to articulate it himself, even if I already know the answer. Like, I have to give that to him. And sometimes when I don’t give you those things, that’s kind of where there’s friction for us, because I’m not allowing you to kind of be you in the process. Yeah.

Jordan 13:53
All right. So I wrote down that it’s, I’m a little muddled, but we’ll, we’ll go with type five here just as a discussion point. So I thought this was insightful. Just like, like we’ve been saying it’s a tool to understand ourselves. Alright, so So five is the investigator, five is the investigator. Or it depends on the because I think this book said the observer, okay. And I, you know, the image that I got to my mind was when I was playing soccer growing up, when you’re a little kid, there’s no positions, every kid just runs into a swarm to the ball. Except for me what I would do, I didn’t like the swarm, I would actually stand back like on the defensive side of the ball, and then then I would be in a better position because then instead of the ball get kicked out of the swarm, then I would be able to run to it without obstruction. And that’s why even like my entire soccer playing career, I was on defense because I could stand back, look at the whole survey of the field, and then prepare and respond accordingly.

Rosanna 14:48
It’s so funny to like, even as a kid like that’s, that was part of who you were, probably wasn’t taught.

Jordan 14:54
More of an analogy than a definition. Alright, so the investigator, I’m just gonna – where did you get this by the way?

Rosanna 15:01
Babe, there’s so many books and websites so I –

Jordan 15:03
So we got this from one of those correct, okay? All right how to our investigators have a need for knowledge and are introverted, curious, analytical and insightful. And so I would say if to some extent, like each of those are true.

Rosanna 15:19
I’d say to every extent all of those are true.

Jordan 15:22
I don’t know… introverted makes it see the descriptions I’ve read a fives are like, it’s almost like like the, your scientific introvert. And that’s not quite me, I can be, you know, somewhat gregarious, I can be a leader and I can, I can…

Rosanna 15:36
He uses as gregarious as the term to define that.

Jordan 15:39
Yep. Don’t put me in a box! Anyway, how to get along with me. Be independent not clingy. Okay. Speak in a straightforward and brief manner. I need that this sounds funny – I need time alone to process my feelings and thoughts. Which, okay, I agree with, but I would define it differently.

Rosanna 15:59
You would define it differently. But I think the heart of the matter is still there.

Jordan 16:03
Says remember that if I seem aloof, distant or arrogant, it may be that I am feeling uncomfortable. Some of these are obvious, like make me feel welcome. But not too intensely. Or I might doubt your sincerity. Like, couldn’t anybody say that? Or if I become irritated when I have to repeat things, it may be because it was such an effort to get my thoughts out in the first place. Don’t we all get irritated when we have to repeat things?

Rosanna 16:28
Some people will tell you the same thing over – no see, that’s why like, that’s never mind that everybody is like you.

Jordan 16:36
I’m gonna skip a few of these.

Rosanna 16:37
I mean, you could even read a better description from one of these books those I got from a website.

Jordan 16:40
You can crack that one open. This one says pet peeves include big parties, which is not true. I mean, I love going to places and seeing people not enough of that these days. Other people’s loud music, I think that would bother anybody. And it lists a few other things as well. But here’s the biggest thing that I would say. And then you can go into what you find in that book too. But I think one of the things that I guess defines me as a five the most is really my desire to, to like step back and think and to plan before engaging. Because I’ve had a number of instances in life where I feel like I have engaged or responded to quickly before I really know what it is that I’m engaging with, and then acted erroneously in some way. And this is why like, if I if I’m in a debate with somebody, and they bring up a point that I never considered before, like, it really like knocks me on to my heels, in a sense, and I want to go back and kind of just brood over it, you know, to what extent does this have merit? How do I fold this in with some of my other knowledge or preconceptions, and then then I can proceed forward. So I think I have learned that being in a reactive position does not suit me very well. And I could certainly do it. But I think my biggest strength is being able to, like take a step back, be an objective like student and observer, and really, like make up my mind about the principle or the action needs to be taken and then act with confidence from there. And so that is something I’ve learned about myself over the years. And, you know, I certainly have other qualities that go beyond that. But that’s definitely something that I think is has come out a lot. Did you find something in there?

Rosanna 18:25
I couldn’t find anything about five because I didn’t know where to look. So I just marked where I need to be when I do mine. Do you want? Do you want to pull yours up?

Jordan 18:32
Okay, no, that’s okay. All right. But this book will spotlight this book real quick, we actually have two books that we looked at, and then a wide range of online resources as well. This one is called the inia Graham and you it is from 2020. And it’s written by Gina Gomez. And this one is great because it is it talks about not just an individual, but how that individual like interacts with other people or other types as well. So we can look at the descriptions for how like how your type and my type interact in this book. We enjoy that at the end.

Rosanna 19:06
All right, so do you want to just do like a little bit rundown on me and what my number is?

Jordan 19:10
You want me to run down? You know, I was gonna run down. You’re gonna run down yourself? Yeah. All right. What type are you, Rosanna?

Rosanna 19:16
I am type two, but I definitely have a three wing.

Jordan 19:20
Okay, so you feel like you I don’t know what my wing is. I could probably look.

Rosanna 19:23
Well maybe you’re like five wing nine or five wing three.

Jordan 19:26
I don’t know your I think your wing has to be a number next to next to the five wing four, six.

Rosanna 19:31
Okay, so my dominant type is two which is the helper. If you’re looking at the center’s like, I’m in like the feeling center. So I don’t like lead with like, facts and whatever. Like there’s something like I lead with like how something feels to me like if it feels right or feels wrong, or if I’m drawn to something. And it’s interesting is that my dominant dominant emotion for coping has more to do with shame than fear or anger. So it’s just interesting when I’m like processing like when I respond What am I responding out of? It’s probably this idea or notion that I am I’m not okay as I am or I’m shamed about something I’ve done and so that’s the reaction kind of spurs from that. But number two, the nurturer. The definition is help “Helpers are warm, concerned, nurturing and sensitive to other people’s needs.” I just like the descriptions in this book better. So maybe I’ll start with that. Especially two wing three – “twos are strong three wings are charmers, they’re very social energetic, have a positive can do attitude about life, they can enjoy being around other others offering support and encouraging those around them to see the bright side of life. They can be flirtatious and seductive and will usually be more extroverted than two wing ones.”

Jordan 20:53
Sounds about right.

Rosanna 20:56
How to get along with me, tell me that you appreciate me share fun times with me take an interest in my problems, though, I will probably try to focus on yours. Let me know I’m important and special to you and be gentle if you criticize me. What do I like about being a two? Being able to relate easily to people and make friends, knowing what people need and being able to make their lives better, being generous, caring and warm, and being sensitive and perceptive about others feelings.

Jordan 21:23
So you feel much more strongly about your type, like you read all the other eight descriptions and you’re like, eh those don’t really fit me. But this two, really does. I think so. And I would agree with that, too.

Rosanna 21:33
And I have characteristics of the perfectionist because I like things a certain way. And like I like to follow the rules to like, No, I’m doing it right. And it bothers me when I feel like I’m following the rules. And it’s not perceived as like I’m doing something, right. But I also have some characteristics of the achiever that I like to achieve that I work really hard that I’m independent, that I like to like to do things on my own. So I like to be a little autonomous. So you know, there, there are things in there that really stand out, that I can relate to, but even just this notion of wanting to be needed, and putting other people’s needs ahead of myself, that sometimes I don’t know what I want, because I’m too focused on worrying about what other people need.

Jordan 22:18
Yeah. And there’s a quote, I saw somewhere, I don’t remember where that I think kind of puts a nice description to it. The quote is, I want you to be happy, just as long as I’m the cause of it. And but I think that I see that play out in a lot of instances to where you really do take great care of others and very attuned to them in a way that even they’re unaware of. And this is why I lean on you a lot to say like, Okay, I’m, I’m kind of thinking thinking through this relational concept, or this this element that we want to do in relation to another person another couple, and you kind of have a better I was gonna say, a better ear for it, but just kind of a better knack for deciphering the appropriate thing to say, or the appropriate gesture to do in that circumstance.

Rosanna 23:09
I would agree. I would agree. So yeah, I mean, I there’s a lot that like, I see the two I can see it. But I do see like other things within the achiever within the perfectionist that, you know, I have some of those qualities, but I mean, really, I lead with kind of feeling and that’s kind of like how I I’m always there for others.

Jordan 23:31
Yeah, it reminds me of the great American classic film, Runaway Bride featuring Julia Roberts and Richard Gere. I think I think we saw this at the theater way back. Yeah, but we’ve talked about this before, because that it’s about this, this bride who keeps leaving her grooms at the altar. And ultimately, it turns out that she’s challenged with kind of a silly question like, What? How do you like your eggs? And she doesn’t know because she would just always say, Oh, just like my eggs, however, you know, whoever the current fiance was. And so at the end of the film, in this great, you know, climactic tear jerker moment, she makes all these different kinds of eggs, and then tries them one by one to decide which one she actually likes. And we’ve talked about that about you too, because sometimes, that’s something that’s lost along the way, like, a lot of times, and I make fun of you for this, but I asked you like, What do you want? Or what do you need? Or I just a simple question, like, do you want to go to bed? Or do you want to watch TV? And all you do is repeat the question back to me, like, what do you want to do? What do you want to do right now? What do you want to do? What do you want for breakfast? Or what do you want for breakfast? Or there’s even simple things around the house too. So this is where it maybe is a little bit more challenging for you in a sense to it because you’re totally the charmer and you know, the the extrovert and so on. But, like if I’m already like taking care of something around the house, like if I’m cleaning up the dishes from breakfast, you’re like, well, I’ll take care of those. It’s like, I’m already 90% done, and I’m in the middle of doing it like this second, and you’re sitting there peacefully, like, you can’t leave well enough alone.

Rosanna 25:05
It’s hard for me. Do you want to read that? type two and type five together?

Jordan 25:11
Okay, yeah, I’ve read this. And I think it’s, I think it’s a little off, but go ahead. So the, in this book they talk about, this is like the description of the relationship between a type two and a type five.

Rosanna 25:22
Yeah, this is I mean, yeah, I mean, talks about conflict, conflict resolution, living in harmony and challenges. Okay. Twos and fives have complementing strengths. twos are in touch with their emotions and help fives bring theirs to the surface. fives may be reserved with their feelings at first, but slowly at their own pace, they’ll feel safe enough to express how they feel with twos. When tos lean too heavily on their emotions, five can help them bring balance by displaying composure and steadiness. This pair may not immediately connect, but with time and patience, the relationship has the potential to grow into a tender friendship.

Jordan 25:55
I’m enjoying my tender friendship with you.

Rosanna 25:57
But you said that you thought we kind of operate, but I would, I would. I mean, there’s some truth to that in the I’m more like feelings and emotion and you will like help bring me down and keep me level-headed. And as shown a couple episodes ago, when you gave that beautiful definition of your my person, you know, you lead with feeling and emotion there when I didn’t. And so a lot of times we can offset each other with with those distinctions. But what did you like? You liked the comparison of me as a two and you as a nine? I don’t know where that is. It’s probably a little further in. But I mean, you felt like we were a little more dynamic. And not just this over time, you know, we’ll we’ll figure it out.

Jordan 26:38
Right. It also says this book also says elsewhere that type twos and fives are opposites. And it’s like, well, opposites attract. And I’m like, really not that, like, we’re not opposites by any stretch of the imagination. In some ways, but when I think of opposites, I’m thinking like two totally different things, that somehow they, you know, they find each other and they make their differences work. And you know that. So I think that’s a little extreme. But there’s, there’s some other I think, more more charming descriptions that are here as well. I think that there’s maybe I’ll find a little bit later, but it talks about, so I looked at the combination of a type two with a type three, and also with a type nine as well. And at least according to this book it talks about, I think the two and three combination describes us a little bit more accurately. Okay. But so here’s the fallacy with this as well, is that when you take these quizzes, it can be difficult because the questions that are posed you you can answer them one of two ways, it could be the way that is 100% accurate. Or it could be the way that you believe about yourself, or wish about yourself, but is not as true.

Rosanna 28:01
Right. A little bit before we recorded, we pulled up a quiz. And you read one of the descriptors and I said, Well, how would you answer that, and you gave yourself like, one rating. And I was like, I didn’t like a lot we agreed on, but it’s like, how do you perceive yourself? And how do others perceive how you really are? And so there is this, you know, it’s like, when you take those quizzes in magazines, when you’re like a teenager, it’s like, I’m gonna I’m gonna put all bs because I want to be like, what that type is at the bottom.

Jordan 28:25
Because you want to turn out a certain type?

Rosanna 28:27
Yeah right. And so, you know, that’s, I think one of the challenges is like, a lot of times now we’re starting to step back and look at who we are and what we want, what our values are, like, what direction we’re headed. And so sometimes in our minds, we think or say that we’re one way, but is that the truth? Is that the reality and so I think that’s what we’re where conversations like this are important. So if you’ve never taken an enneagram test, or like you and your husband, or your wife, or your friends, like haven’t done it together, like, you know, take a quiz together and see like, would you answer the same way as you would like in front of your partner? Would they rate you somewhere else in a different category? And not because you need to be a certain type, but just to acknowledge, like the nuances of your personality and like the nuances of your relationship?

Jordan 29:13
Right? Yeah. I mean, it raises the question, Are you the best person to determine your type? Right? And I think, I think to some extent, yes, like you, once you really like, think about and reflect on yourself, you know yourself pretty well. And could probably answer those questions very accurately. But I think it’s interesting to compare the outcome that you have for one of those quizzes or one of those types to how someone who knows you pretty intimately would also do that. And so that’s why when I look at this, I’m like, well, it’s nuanced. I see a little bit of myself in this one and that one, and use you seem pretty adamant. You’re like, No, no, Jordan, you’re five. And so I take that really seriously. But like I would say, with a grain of salt as well, and a grain of salt is small, but I do like to kind of mix that in and think like, there is nuance to it. I guess part of me too is, as I say, a little skeptical of being put in, like a nicely tied, you know, box with a nice little bow on it. Because, I mean, when you you’re dealing with human personality, it is it is complex as a lot of gray area. And, you know, I, I think that, if we’re too quick to do that, then we may be missing out on other, you know, potential strengths or just insights into ourselves. And if we do that for someone out, like, if you’re, if you’re like, if you see me only as one way, you may sort of like overcompensate with certain things that are maybe like, you know, too much of or not, I would say not the right angle, what I may actually need in the relationship.

Rosanna 30:49
Yeah, and that’s, you know, where bias comes into play. And, and being closed minded is like, you know, we picture people a certain way, or they’ve been a certain way for so long. And so we lock them into that box or that type. But that doesn’t mean that they have different parts of their personality that not that you haven’t been privy to, but just that you haven’t seen, or, you know, you know, going from having no kids to then being a mom with, with kids, you know, you undergo a lot of change, and that changes who you are, and maybe even you know, how you see yourself or how you relate to people, you know, if I compared being a teacher before I had kids, and then I went back in the classroom now having kids, for very different kids with different personalities, like, would I treat certain kids differently, or have a little more empathy for like, the kid who has a lot of energy and can’t sit still and isn’t quiet, because we’ve got one of those, you know, like, you know, different different things in people’s lives, slowly change them. And we have to be open to seeing that and realizing that and, and, and being able to relate to them, even if they’ve changed?

Jordan 31:54
Yeah. So I think the idea is that like looking at enneagram as a tool, and I would even say like it’s a useful tool for understanding your own needs, understanding your partner’s needs. And but it’s not necessarily the end of the story. And you can and we’re really, like, really, like just amateurs at looking at this. But even just the dabbling, that we’ve done has led to some useful insights.

Rosanna 32:17
Yeah. So do you want to move to takeaways? Or is there something else within this conversation that you want to kind of share or explore?

Jordan 32:28
I don’t have any other questions, I guess. Actually, the only other one that does come to mind is about kids, like, can you use this to help you understand your own children better?

Rosanna 32:39
I think so. You know, I think it kind of pairs with the love languages, just like, you know, like how your kids need to be shown love or express love that this is something you can see about like their character about maybe the way that they’re viewing the world, and it can kind of help you understand maybe what they need. And so you know, as you as you’re reading the types, it’s you know, you can see, like, what did you say? You said Leo was what type?

Jordan 33:01
A seven.

Rosanna 33:03
A seven, and the seven is, I forgot – the enthusiast. No surprise there.

Jordan 33:09
Yeah. And so but as I was reading that description, you know, understanding, or you know, or second child like it, it really stood out. But I didn’t get a strong sense of the other kids like in reading those descriptions, either. So I think the same thing, like I don’t want to, like leave to any conclusion, as a five, you know, would be prone to do leave to any conclusion. And you know, too quickly, this kind of label any of our kids just like, I wouldn’t want to do that with you. But I do in the same manner, I’m like, just use this as a tool to maybe understand and gain some additional insights that I wouldn’t have had if I didn’t look into it.

Rosanna 33:47
Well, yeah. And I’m, you know, I’m reading a book now about like, being a boy mom, like what what your sons need from you in a way to understand them better, because it’s like being female and never having been a little boy. So there’s disconnects for me. So it’s like, just using it as a tool to better understand them and their personality type, the way they perceive the world, like, do they move on feeling or thinking or instinct, like, you know, you can see those those different ways that they act or interact? Or when they’re coping with something stressful? Like, where’s that? Where’s that coming from? And so it’s just a way to, to be better present for them. And to understand them, instead of just throwing my hands up in the air being like, I just don’t get it. I don’t know what to do with you. I don’t know how to address it. Like just really understanding where they’re coming from. Right. So I think the biggest takeaway would be this, like, what are the benefits of knowing your enneagram, which is, you know, just another word for your personality type. And I think there are four different takeaways. And I think we’ve touched upon all of them. It’s, you know, it’s to promote your own self awareness. Like, you need to be aware of who you are, what you stand for how you think, and it’s really, like we said, comes from nature and nurture. You know, the things that you’re kind of born with and then how you’re raised and those values and So that you can learn how to love yourself. And so, you know, we talked about self care, and we’ve been talking about You’re my person and, and loving others. And so like, you have to learn how to love yourself for who you are, none of us are perfect, we have our flaws, we have our weaknesses, we have our strengths. So we have to kind of own those things about us. And then in those weaknesses, kind of understand how we can better be better in those. And I think both of those things will allow you to improve your relationships with others. As you start to number four, boost your compassion for others, maybe you will understand people differently after reading this. And if you can understand that they react in this way, for these reasons like that might give you a better kind of toolkit to deal with people, right?

Jordan 35:44
I mean, if anything, it should open up our eyes to be like, okay, like, this person is not the same as me. And so the reason why they’re, they’re thinking differently, or interpreting this differently, responding differently is because they are different. And the better that we could just acknowledge that those differences exist, and then perceive what those actual differences are, that helps us, you know, inter relate to the other people in our lives better.

Rosanna 36:08
Right. We have these expectations for people because we think that they should do the thing –

Jordan 36:13
That’s not how I see it. That’s not what I would do.

Rosanna 36:14
Right? That’s not what I would do. So if they’re not doing it the way that I want them to do it, then it must be wrong, but it’s not. It’s just it’s what’s right for them. And so just acknowledging that, that we are all different, we’re wired differently, we interact differently. We need different things, especially at different times, then it’s like, okay, yeah, that’s that’s just them. And like, that’s fine. I don’t, it doesn’t have to, like upset me.

Jordan 36:33
Yeah. So good. So this is a quote Socrates. You know, he was a big proponent of saying, like, “know yourself.” And so this is a great step to do that, but also a really important tool for getting to know others as well. Yeah. Great.

Rosanna 36:49
Well, thank you for joining us this week. And hopefully, you can use some of these tools. Take a quiz with a spouse, do it with a friend or even just kind of read up a little bit more about like who you are.

Jordan 36:59
Yeah, we have a website with shownotes for all of our episodes. So what we’d really like for you to do is to when you take a quiz, just like we’re saying I’ve been upfront with our types and what we’ve learned about ourselves and one another, go ahead and leave a comment on the show notes for today, so that we can see what other types of personalities are out there and what you’re learning as we go.

Rosanna 37:18
Great. Thanks for joining us. Have a great day.

Jordan 37:20
Thank you, everybody.