Season 2, Episode 5: Self-Education

Jordan 0:00
Hello, and welcome to season two, Episode Five of the relentless pursuit podcast. This episode is titled self education. So today, we’re talking all about self education. And this is different than our conversation regarding back to school and education that we did at the end of season one, because this isn’t focusing on our kids learning, or going back to school or anything like that. But it’s really focused on like our own as adults, like personal

education, kids, let’s talk about

Rosanna 0:44
education and knowledge. And kind of the pursuit of that as we want to change and grow and better ourselves into the best versions of ourselves. So believe it or not, in 2015, so that’s five years ago, self education was $107. billion industry. And by 2025, they’re predicting that it will explode to become a $325 billion industry. Alright,

Jordan 1:09
so in just 10 years, the self education industry will triple

Unknown Speaker 1:15
triple.

Rosanna 1:16
And this is kind of fueled by actually, there’s a whole article that like LinkedIn bought kind of like this, like self education domain as a way to like better people bettering themselves,

Jordan 1:29
like connecting perfect, like, professional in the sense,

Rosanna 1:32
correct. So like never before people are investing in their own knowledge and in their own growth like never before. And like the big question is, well, why is that? And Forbes answers this question in an article that they recently wrote. It was published on August 21 2020. And it says, it’s because we currently live in a world that is rapidly changing on a near daily basis right in front of our eyes, forcing us to adapt and pivot in ways that we haven’t had to before. The key to surviving and thriving in this time of extreme change, uncertainty and disruption is being able to be flexible and proactive.

Jordan 2:07
And don’t think I’ve thought about it that way before. But I think that’s accurate, like I’ve thought of, and about what we’ll talk about what we’ll be about kind of just like growing and bettering yourself, you know, like for specific reasons, but we really do think about how quickly the the ground underneath us is shifting, you know, a lot of jobs that exist now didn’t exist a decade ago or more, and that know how much more will that change in another decade. So it’s like if we want to keep up in I was thinking professionally, but in a number of ways, then being able to continue to learn is essential.

Rosanna 2:42
Yeah, and if you think about these last six, seven months of COVID, how many businesses have had to pivot in unprecedented ways in order to keep their doors open, and the ones that haven’t because of lack of skills in terms of maybe social media or marketing or like just diversifying what they’re able to do have had to close their doors, right? So it’s become even increasingly more important. Okay, so let’s define self education. Self education is an education without the guidance of masters. So a certified teacher or like professor or something of that sort, or institutions like an accredited university or college or program, and autodidact are individuals who choose the subjects heard fancy word, who choose the subjects, they will study the materials they will learn from, as well as their own studying rhythm and timeline.

Jordan 3:34
Okay, so this is distinguished from like, like a school has a set curriculum, a set teacher, or like an institution will have like multiple courses, then you get your diploma at the end. So we’re distinguishing from that this is really self paced, self guided, everything’s self driven,

Rosanna 3:52
you know, based on something that you want to learn about, for the sake of learning, or ultimately for the sake of doing and trying and learning through it. Thanks. So what do you think enough to talk about with this topic?

Jordan 4:04
Well, I really like this, because this is, this is something that we’ve believed just as educators, you know, for a long time, and we’ve tried to apply ourselves. But, you know, in schools, there’s that phrase, lifelong learner. And when we talk about and we hear, it’s like, from our kids schools, in like, all the way I would imagine through high school as well, like, we want our students to learn this content, but also learn how to learn and enjoy learning enough that they’re going to continue to do it in all kinds of different ways, even after it’s, you know, required by state law, you know,

Rosanna 4:39
now, can I tell you something, and you might judge me, and maybe our listeners will, too. I used to think that that was kind of like a crack. Like, oh, we want you to be like a lifelong learner. And once you leave this institution, or, you know, walk out of these doors, you know, that you’re going to seek knowledge and it that never really clicked for me.

Jordan 4:59
I don’t think it will at the time, like when you’re young, because you’re so excited to be done with school and stop having people tell you what to do. And it does sound like one of those, like, you know, kind of like in the clouds little phrase is that you maybe you don’t even understand what it’s supposed to mean until you’re older.

Rosanna 5:17
One, I think I’ve mentioned this before, like, you know, like, going to college was like a means to an end at some point, like you go, so you get the degree and you get the job, and then you just work the job. And then the more that I’ve grown, the more I realized that that’s not it at all. That’s not what I want it to be for me. And so this seeking of this self education and learning different things that I didn’t even know I was interested in, and maybe I wasn’t at the time, but picking up like books, or listening to things or hopping onto a webinar to learn things has kind of really opened the doors in my eyes for just the rest of my life.

Jordan 5:48
How much is out there? So So let me ask you that first, like, What? What would you consider, like all of the ways that one could go about learning? And why would they want to do that?

Rosanna 6:02
Well, I think in the age we live in, there are so many ways you could go about learning. And sometimes, it’s kind of surprising what you can learn from now, you know, Netflix is what it is. There’s some junk on it. But there’s some good stuff. There’s some

Jordan 6:16
there’s a lot of like nonfiction. So there’s a lot of documentaries, things that can walk you through it, right,

Rosanna 6:19
which that never used to interest me, you you love documentaries, and you love learning about things. And I just used to like to be entertained. But I found that like when there’s documentaries and those types of things on Netflix, like that opens my eyes to a topic that I maybe didn’t think about. And then that kind of like spurs me on to like maybe read a book by, you know, something similar, and it’s never now it’s not I move away from fiction, and I’m looking at nonfiction and like exploring those topics, because I’m interested in them. And a lot of times, then there’s application in my life and even in my job and even in the things that I’m pursuing that I didn’t necessarily see a connection to before.

Jordan 6:58
Yeah, yeah, I think there’s two reasons to learn like one and I just think about like this documentary is come to mind, because one that I enjoyed not too long ago was about rock climbers. It’s I have no interest in rock climbing myself. But it was entertaining at the time. And I feel like the the end result of that is that I’m now slightly more knowledgeable about the, you know, the, what they presented in that documentary. And I’m definitely like, interested in kind of learning more about that. But really, that that’s a little bit more I would consider to be entertainment. It’s like learning because it is fun to explore something I didn’t really know anything about. And I think the other like far more applicable. One is what you were talking about, which is you you have some sort of objective for yourself, and some some sort of application that you would like to make. And the more that you can educate yourself on that given topic, then the more likely you are to be successful in that endeavor that you are planning. That’s your next step. Yeah, I mean, I

Rosanna 7:58
was went to college to be a high school English teacher. And so I obtained that degree I did my student teaching, I taught for a while. And then at the time when we had our first son for us, it made more sense for me to be home with him. And so I was home with him. But even after being home with him, I still worked to remember this for a few years for like three years for a nonprofit. And while I was teaching high school, I ended up being the yearbook advisor there and I had no graphic experience, I had an English degree. So I taught like the journalistic side, I paired with technology teacher who taught the aspects of learning Photoshop, and InDesign and layout. And I had to learn that and then apply it on the computer. So the first year I taught that, like it was like a trial by fire and learn by doing like, I had no idea that kids knew more than I did, but I learned from them. And so that was like an interesting scenario that I never thought in my teaching career would be essential or important to the rest of my life. So then I start working for this nonprofit, and they want me to do their newsletter. And lo and behold, I need to use Photoshop and InDesign to lay out their newsletter for them. In addition to write an article, these

Jordan 9:05
skills that you just developed,

Rosanna 9:06
does react over the last five years, but then I took into that. And then from there, my sister in law was at the time selling stuff on Etsy, she like could sew and make and craft and started selling and was pretty successful. said, you know, you do a lot with graphics. Have you ever, you know, thought about jumping into the Etsy marketplace and selling some of your designs? And I said, I don’t know anything about that. No.

Jordan 9:29
So then you learn a little bit about the online marketplace a little bit about accounting and customer service,

Rosanna 9:35
correct. And even social media with kind of, you know, showing people your brand and what you sell and the first version of my shop was not the last version of my shop, and then people saw what I was selling and designing and bringing it together. And that’s how somebody asked me to like design and create an event for their kid. And then that was the start of my event business. So there were along the way. These were Things I never thought I would do. I never had an interest in. But then my skills had shifted, and then gradually became something else. And now I’m on like this next version of like, the skills I’ve obtained.

Jordan 10:11
Yeah.

Rosanna 10:12
And so learn by doing was a big thing. But then it was also like researching, okay, online marketplace and accounting and taxes, and all of these things that I didn’t want to learn about, but was thrust into and then got excited about.

Jordan 10:26
Yeah. And what’s interesting to me about that is like, we think of like our institutional education, and we get a degree in recertified to do something. But there’s kind of this additional component that goes into that, right? There’s this idea that who we are at the end of that formal education is not who is we don’t, we don’t want to get stuck at that degree of learning. And you kind of like this idea for this growth mindset, you’re going to continue to learn and to grow, maybe not in that formalized way. So I think some people may think that, like education only consists of what you get from a school and the outcome is always a degree, and then maybe a position that’s associated with that. Whereas what you’re saying is the like, as long as you understand that you can always be learning and always be growing from all the elements that are out there from the people that you know, to yours, like social networks, to your like, blogs, and videos and tutorials. And like, there’s so many different elements that are out there that as long as you’re engaging with those, you’re going to develop those new skills and open your own pathways.

Rosanna 11:36
Yeah, but part of it is that that was scary to me. And so I think that’s what sometimes we let hold us back in a variety of areas is like, well, I don’t know enough about this. So I have to a admit that I don’t know. Yeah, be then I have to, like, you know, you sign up for a program you go. And then they tell you what you need to do. But like this is completely self driven. And it’s much harder to do that for yourself and to push yourself and to establish those timelines and choose your materials, and the rhythm and maybe like what you what you want your end game to be that we let that stop us from starting. Yeah. And so when your sister had mentioned something about Etsy, I told her No, for like a year, because I was so afraid, like, that’s out of my comfort zone, it’s out of my wheelhouse. I can’t do that. And though I learned the most through even my interaction with somebody else who was already doing it. And then I think of to somebody who wanted to start going into events, it was a couple years ago, she’s like, you know, we have someone in common. She told me you do this? Can we sit down and have coffee? And I remember telling you, like, someone wants to have coffee with me to ask me about how I started my business? Actually, no. And I thought I said, there’s so many people who know so much more than me. And you said, if anybody ever wants to meet with you to talk about what you know, you should use your knowledge as a gift to give them to get started. And so I think about that now, when I ask other people, as people who are already doing it are already masters, we always think that it has to be someone with like a degree or they’re a professor of something, right, they’ve achieved something but people who are already doing it can be great allies and resources for us to get started,

Jordan 13:13
right. And there’s that that real world experience that practicality as well as well. And that’s how I feel too. Like there’s, there’s a lot of like new terrain that’s being explored, thanks to emerging technology. But there’s also like a lot of people who are beginning to explore that. And even if they’re just a step or two ahead of us, then that’s someone that we can learn from. And I think about even simple things like how many household chores, or like handyman kinds of things have I done, or at least attempted, thanks to like YouTube clips, God

Rosanna 13:46
bless YouTube, we get a lot done around here, because YouTube don’t know how to do it. Let’s watch that video and check

Jordan 13:51
it out clip and you have, you know, just some guy in his own basement, like fiddling with stuff. And he’s like, here’s how you do it. And you know, we can learn from that as well. And so there’s some, like, I think formal areas where we’ve expressed interest in and have, you know, bought books, or listened to podcasts, or networked with people, or like looked at YouTube videos, or again, done all those attended seminars, and just tried to kind of it’s almost like this, this self certification this this degree, and it’s really great having the internal motivation to continue to dive into the same topic of the things I really do. Maybe just one time, if it’s like, something’s broken, I need to fix it. And I’ll try to like learn how to do that myself before calling in like an expert and having to pay them.

Rosanna 14:39
Sometimes it would help to just call the next some well and have paid them. Yes, but but it’s learning and growing is good. It’s all about trying to you know, because the first Yes, and the first time might be a failure, but maybe the next time will be a success.

Jordan 14:53
Maybe or the next time you just call the first.

Rosanna 14:57
See either way

Jordan 14:58
you learn something I think we’re both thanks About the same thing because no one of our ceilings may or may not have water stains, water damage on it. So it’s okay, live

Rosanna 15:08
and learn, live and learn case arrastra

Jordan 15:10
Yeah, but I think that the the important thing to think about with knowledge is like, if we think of it as this fixed thing, like I went to school, I earned my degree. And now all of my time is spent either like applying just that information to my career, or like otherwise entertaining myself. Without this idea of continuous growth, then I think I would compare it to like inflation, where if you’re, if your money is in the bank, and it just sits there year after year after year becomes less valuable because of inflation. And I think knowledge is kind of the same way where the world is moving on. So even at one point, if you had to kind of mastered all of that, given content, if you don’t continue to make the investment in your learning, then the world is going to move on and what you know, will become less and less valuable.

Rosanna 15:56
When a lot of industries, that’s why they kind of, say force you but see continuing education, credits and things that, okay, you might be licensed in this area, but you have continuing education opportunities to get better. I mean, I know that they even do that in the hair industry, where you have to like recertify, every so many years, and you have to have so many hours of practice and training in new areas, because they want to continue to see you learn and grow and develop the profession and the industry, right and not just be stagnant. And oh, I can do this. One thing.

Jordan 16:28
I think that’s assumed in some industry, like for like doctors, for example, like there’s always new, like medical procedures and studies that are coming out. And it’s, it’s really essential that, you know, if say you became a doctor 30 years ago, that you’re not applying the same principles from then that I because they’re not as applicable today. And so I think it’s assumed in the medical profession, that you are going to be like continuing to like attending conferences, and conducting research and exposing yourself to the ever developing world that’s there.

Rosanna 16:59
But I think the same would be true as a mechanic, you look at cars now, and where they’re going, and Tesla and all of that, like a mechanic who learned something 40 years ago is not gonna be able to service the kind of car that is moving forward. Exactly. And so I think we’re gonna continue to see that no matter what, like, what,

Jordan 17:15
what is not going to change moving forward, then that’s my point. So that I think everything changes, like even in we think about, like families are, you know, consistent, but even that’s different, because think about all the decisions we have to make as parents now that our parents didn’t have to make or grandparents didn’t have to make. So I think in terms of like, one of our conversations was about like, screentime in the households, that’s a completely new domain, that it takes some education of like, what are these things? What are the what, what is the current research? What are the the decisions, the best decisions that could be made? And so I really think in every domain of our life, it’s important to continue to expose ourselves to the things that are out there and learn. Otherwise, we’re just, I think, forced to repeat something that we learned a long time ago, and we will no longer be the best or even applicable. Yeah.

Rosanna 18:05
I mean, I, one of the questions that just comes to mind is like, what’s at stake? If we are not internally driven to educate ourselves with the goal of moving forward? I mean, I feel like the answer is just everything, right? Like, we will really be left behind,

Jordan 18:25
right? And ignorance can be bliss, same time, in the sense that maybe if you, I don’t know, like, do you think it’s fair to say like, if you don’t know what you’re missing, and you you feel like you have everything you need, then we’re okay. Or does it eventually come back to haunt you, maybe not tomorrow, but in a decade or 20 years from now that everything is so different, and you fail to keep up along the way, and then the jump that you need to make becomes that much more excessive, and

Rosanna 18:52
then it becomes a struggle. And I think that’s true, because that ignorance is bliss, I feel a little bit like I’m living in that right now. Just because we’re so focused on making sure everything is happening for our kids with like school at home, and then we decided that it would be a great idea to get a puppy and I’ve had events every other weekend, and like, things have been very chaotic, so chaotic, that I’ve felt very overwhelmed lately, like, I don’t even like see the people that I know and I love because like it’s just kind of feel like I’m drowning a little bit trying to get to the top and I think that we all have seasons and times where like that’s, that’s the reality. And so like people are like, oh, have you seen the news? You know what’s going on? No. And so I will claim right now ignorance is bliss because like I don’t need one more thing to worry about that like is out of my control that I’m going to be like drowning and so like I’ve kind of like actually just like shut out the outside worlds, right? But I know that that’s very temporary. And I know that like I am going to have to like pick up my head

Jordan 19:47
and look around which can be dangerous. Yeah,

Rosanna 19:49
right. The election is coming up like what do I need to like educate myself on what do I need to start like, you know, sifting through to make sure that I’m making good decisions moving forward. So like, I think Ignorance is bliss is good for short term, if you need to block something out to focus on what’s in front of you, but long term, I mean, it, the world will leave you behind.

Jordan 20:09
Yeah. And since you bring up, like the election and politics, I think that that’s, that’s one area, obviously one of many areas that we we really have to kind of dedicate ourselves to think just being good students of. And there’s this temptation to kind of, I think, like, let let people intrude upon our own thinking and learning process. And I’m thinking specifically through social media, where there are algorithms that are designed to kind of feed us ever more increasingly extreme kinds of perspectives. And so if you ever feel like, like other people are just like out of their minds, or crazy or right, when it comes to certain issues, and we like that we are not as able to even understand or come to any sort of middle ground. I think that that’s because even though under the guise of self education, we’re not being good students. And so for me, like, I mean, one of the things that I always try to consistently take a look at is, if I know that there’s something that I’m learning about that has more than one side, I try to expose myself to that other side. So I’m always very skeptical about what someone is trying to tell me. And I’m like, Well, what would someone who disagrees with this person say? And I think, ultimately, like self education, comes down to like, what do what do I want to get out of it? Not What does someone else want to get out of me. And so the reason why when you brought up politics i wanted to bring up that is because like it Next, someone else does want something out of us, they want our vote, they want our opinion or activism. And, and I think we should be doing those things, but in a way that we truly have have thought through and come to terms with, it’s very easy to be in an echo chamber, where everything that you’re exposed to on social media, or every like book you buy, or every person you talk to, is just telling you that you’re right. And that can be very dangerous. Because the chances are that there’s more to learn that we have, whether intentionally or not, we’ve blocked it out. And so that’s, that’s I think, the double edged sword, when it comes to self education is let’s make sure that we are being good students and exposing yourself to a range of information on any given topic, rather than just find something that sounds the most appropriate to us. And agreeing with it without critically thinking about it.

Rosanna 22:42
Well, and I think that’s the reason we chose that book for our book club to try exposing us to a different side, exposing us to someone who is not like us, that does not come from the same background, in order for us to understand better who we are, who we want to be, and how we can make things better. Exactly.

Jordan 23:00
And so I think even a non political topics get to look at the same thing, like we’ve a lot of what we’re talking about as applied to like real estate as well. And we’ve spent a lot of time like, you know, just reading books and attending conferences and doing different things just to explore that. But you always got to think like there’s it’s a wide world. So what is this one person saying? And that works for them. But what are some other things that maybe they didn’t include, that someone else could to help me come to the best understanding of what I feel

Rosanna 23:29
is appropriate, right, a more well rounded understanding of the topic from a variety of angles, a variety of contexts, and from a variety of experiences. Because I think sometimes you’re right, we get we get trapped, like pigeonhole, like, Oh, this is the way you have

Jordan 23:41
to do it and become so narrow, such a narrow lane of thinking that we forget about everything else.

Rosanna 23:47
And what works for you does not work for me, because you and I learn very differently. So even the way in which we choose to learn about topics, or the topics that we choose are very different. And so if I let you dictate that to me, like I’m not going to get the most out of it. Yeah.

Jordan 24:02
So that’s, I think that’s one of the important things, as we talked about, like self education is like what is what is the end goal with all of this, and we talked about being able to apply it towards a domain in our life that we feel is valuable. And I think also just not just like affirming our thoughts or opinions, but like, truly, like the like a more formal education may like leading ourselves to a wider world than we could have experienced or determined on our own.

Rosanna 24:32
Do you know when I’ve learned the most, when I’ve been the most uncomfortable, and when I’ve not known? That’s when I’ve learned the most

Jordan 24:39
you’ve learned the most when you’ve not known?

Rosanna 24:42
Well, you know, like, Okay, so, okay, you go through so let’s talk about college. Okay, I went to college I student taught right, like, you at least feel like you know something, right? Like you’ve come away with something and you think okay, like I’m ready for this. Yeah. But like we started this podcast. Okay, so I mean, we did a little research on like, okay, we need microphones we need, right? Like, we need show notes. You know, there were like these things that like in our mind, we put on our list of things that we had to do. Had we ever taken a class about a podcast? No. Had we ever recorded a podcast? No, you’ve listened to tons of podcasts. I think before we started the podcast, I’d listened to a total of five podcasts, like not even five, like five episodes, yeah, five episodes, not five seasons of 10. Yeah, no, five episodes of podcast just because it didn’t really fit with my life in terms of when or how I could listen, and not because I couldn’t get things out of it. But I knew very little about a podcast. And you, you know, encouraged me and said, like, we this is something that we can do, we can get a lot out of it, you know, we had our intentions. And that’s what we wanted

Jordan 25:46
to get out of it. But six months from the moment that we said, we want to do it to the time that we actually published our first episode,

Rosanna 25:54
right? So, but we gave ourselves that like, timeline, and then we kind of divided up the tasks and you kind of okay, what do we need to figure out? What do we need to learn, you know, trial and error, but like, I’ve seen so much growth in both me as a learner, as a podcaster. In us as a couple, like trying to do this, when we knew very little about the topic. So we didn’t spend like three years studying it or interviewing people like sometimes we let that hold us back. Because we feel like we don’t know enough, right?

Jordan 26:25
I haven’t I haven’t mastered so well, you never really will until you do it. So what what percent, do you think you need to know something? Before you start?

Rosanna 26:36
Is there really like a percent? Well,

Jordan 26:38
I like in my mind, it would be 10. Like you need to know, like,

Rosanna 26:41
there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, you only need to know 10%,

Jordan 26:44
right. And then the other 90%, you have to just like you, you only need to know enough to get started. If you think you need to know 100%, you never will get started with whatever that is, or take that next step. So if you have enough to get started, maybe eat just enough to be a little foolish about it, then you can get involved in it make the commitment and the other 90% will follow. But it really that 90% doesn’t happen unless you take that first step. So it requires experience. It requires discomfort it requires you almost like putting yourself in a position where shoot. Now I have to figure this out. Because I’ve already committed to it in some way.

Rosanna 27:22
Well, there’s like a thing that’s like the first time you do anything is like going to be the worst, the worst of anything you’ve ever done. Mm hmm. And so you I remember you said that before we recorded the podcast, you’re like, Can you imagine like when we’re seven seasons in 10 years from now?

Jordan 27:35
listener? Yeah, you know,

Rosanna 27:39
writing our book, yeah, we’re gonna look back and laugh at our first episode. And that actually scared me a little bit because it made me think, Oh my gosh, like, we’re gonna be embarrassed of this, like, so like, when people were listening to the first episode, I was thinking, I was like, so nervous, cuz they’re gonna be like, you guys are awful. Like, what? What are you doing? And it was interesting, because, you know, we got really great feedback. We have a lot of great family and friends who are listening and other followers that we’ve picked up. And people still comment about that first episode. So like, even knowing that, that won’t be the best of anything that we create. But that was like the first step after we’ve learned and from there, we continue to grow, and not letting

Jordan 28:16
us try after that, too. Yeah. So I mean, 111 thought that I have kind of fallen off this is that like, do you think that there is in in the lifelong learner ness that we’re talking about? And even within the domain of self education? Is there a place for, or an advantage to having like any sort of institutionalized education, so let’s say like, you’re required to go to school through high school. And many people after that choose to go to college or to a trade school? And then they start their career? Is there any advantage in like, continuing to, like engage in institutionalized education?

Rosanna 28:57
I think there is, I think, you know, even from the time our kids start school, you learn how to learn through school, you learn how to read, right? You learn how to look at text for information, you learn how to dissect attacks, look at perspective, like, there are things that you learn through those stages of your education that prepare you to be able to learn independently. So yeah, not just reading, not just math, not just, you know, basic knowledge, but like, learning how to learn. That’s, that’s a skill that is taught and needs to learn, you know, needs to be taught, and something that we need to learn.

Jordan 29:33
Yeah. I also think about, like the idea that it’s like getting a personal trainer for our workouts, like when someone tells you what to do, then you you can just do it and enjoy the results of it. And I almost think maybe like a teacher can be like that to where even as an adult, like you sign up for a call, you’ve paid money for this class. And now you’ve kind of committed to just like getting your money’s worth out of it in a sense. And so there’s like the power of the teacher. That person who is likely a couple steps ahead of you and has something to offer the power of classmates with the camaraderie, and also the accountability that comes with that. And I always thought that there was power in a due date. I mean, how many things do like we all decide we’re going to do this, and we don’t have anyone holding us to it. And so that date that we wanted done by just passes by, when we’re in a class, like the due date is the due date, and you better get your work done. And so it kind of forces you to engage in learning along a specific timeline. And I think there’s an advantage to a few of those elements of a formal education that I would include has, like if you’re opting into it, and I’d say, that’s part of what self education could entail.

Rosanna 30:49
Well, sure. And even in that, like in education, you have like feedback from like, teachers, and like, you learn how to gain feedback, you like to look at it critically, and how to, like improve going forward. So I mean, there’s a lot of different things that aren’t just like the due date of turning something in or producing something, but even some of the monotonous skills to like get you there as well how to interact with people how to work cooperative, Co Op, cooperative, collaboratively, there we go. with people, there’s just there’s a lot there.

Jordan 31:17
Mm hmm. So and that, that that’s one of the advantages to that. So I think there’s kind of like the one off, like, I could listen to certain podcast episodes, or watch certain videos, or I could buy like a set of books or sign up for a master class. And you get to engage with learning that way. And that I think, institutionalized education can fall under that as well, where there’s something that now I’m interested in, maybe it’s professionally, maybe it’s personally, but I want to find a way to allow someone or a system to kind of bring me up further along. But there

Rosanna 31:53
are plenty of people who are now creating courses. I mean, Tony Robbins has been doing it for years, there’s, there’s a bunch of people, I went to like a seminar this fall, and Rachel Hollis was there like, these are people now who have like, mastered kind of like the art of self development and improving and are creating courses for people like to take to like move themselves forward. And like whatever their business or their strategy, or their industry is in. And I think, you know, a lot of people are buying into that, because they’ve seen it work for other people. And it’s not, you know, some people can afford a four year degree or a graduate degree or something, but they’re looking for people who have, you know, mastered whatever their content is, and then have taught other people to do the same thing through their own, like learning and investigation. There’s

Jordan 32:41
a course for anything right now. What would you say to the person who says like this, this all sounds really great. I totally agree, I don’t have time.

Rosanna 32:51
We all have time, the book, right, we all have 24 hours in a day. And so it all has to really like go back to deciding to get off the sidelines and get in the arena, which we talked about in season one. And then finding the time by deciding what’s important and what’s not. And cutting out some of those unimportant things to find an hour to read or 20 minutes to listen to a podcast or taking a day off work to attend a seminar like there are things that we need to shift around in our lives to make it work,

Jordan 33:20
right. And I think if something is important enough, then you find a way to give it the space that it needs. So and that’s challenging, because there’s I think, many an evening where maybe like earlier in the evening, I’m like, I feel fantastic. I can’t wait to read this or explore this topic. And then excuse me, after the kids go to bed, and then I feel like I am just too too tired. Or even if I open that book to read it, there’s no way that I actually get more than a page or two into it.

Rosanna 33:57
I think that’s where accountability comes into play. Because we can even say to ourselves, like oh, I this is what I’m interested in, this is what I want to do. But if you don’t have someone holding you accountable, you’re less likely to do it. So I see this, like at the gym, right? Like having a trainer or someone there who’s like pushing you some kind of accountability. We put out there that we were launching a podcast on June 24 2020. So once we put that out there on social media and Jordan who like at the time, like never posted on social media, like put it out there, I put it out there. Then our friends and family started sharing it, it was like

Jordan 34:33
then you can tap like better now we have

Rosanna 34:35
to do this. Otherwise, we look foolish, and there’s nothing worse than you know, feeling foolish or like having people like call you and be like Oh, I thought you were

Jordan 34:43
gonna do this. How come you didn’t do it? I’ve done that before to remember I think I told you I’m gonna run a marathon this year. And you’re like, Okay, and you’re supportive of it, but that like two months later, I’m like, Yeah, actually, I don’t feel like there’s maybe too much to learn. But I think that for me and they’re

Rosanna 34:59
informal Education, you see a lot of accountability. So in self education, it is self driven. And so that’s probably the harder part is if you maybe don’t express or have people to hold you kind of Hey, how’s that going? Like, you know, you’re studying this? Are you getting any closer to building your, you know, rebuilding your old Mustang or like, whatever it is to, like, help you like, yeah, yeah, I said it was important. I’m gonna do it, and I’m gonna do it. Yeah,

Jordan 35:23
I’m glad you brought up the Mustang. I don’t want the conversation to end without that little pipe dream that I have. So I am, as you know, like, I don’t know anything about cars. And I’m actually rather bad at anything requiring, you know, like tools and mechanics in general.

Rosanna 35:42
I mean, you know how to change the windshield wipers and change the right internal filter, right? So yeah, how much how much more is there.

Jordan 35:51
But that is one thing I feel like is in my grass one day that says not for now. But like one day do feel like there’s enough information out there that if I could, yeah, buy this old Mustang and fix it up. And that would be more entertainment, more hobby, and kind of more self growth is nothing, you know, it doesn’t involve anybody else really. But that that is one thing that I kind of hit my sights on. But I think there’s other things too related to family and to finances and to careers. And it’s really no limit to our own growth, except the the time and motivation we can put towards it. So I think that’s kind of the note that that I want to end on is just to kind of this note of inspiration. That’s, you know, if it is important, then we can make space for it. And we can pursue that if we choose. But I think that we we also have to, in a sense, because we also run the risk of standing still, and having the world move past us without realizing.

Rosanna 36:44
Yeah. So you ready to wrap this up to wrap it up? All right. So I think we have just a takeaway. And I think it’s it’s a two part takeaway. And I think it starts with formal education. So formal education gives us the tools to become lifelong learners, because it teaches us how to learn. But continued learning gives us the tools to become lifelong doers. It gets us up off the sideline, in the arena, doing what we say we’re going to do. Mm hmm. And I think that’s really important. And so,

Jordan 37:13
so the the question is like, the more we learn, the more we’re empowered to do to do. And the more we do, I also think the more we learn through that action.

Rosanna 37:21
Oh, yeah. I mean, it’s what is the phrase about teaching and mastering? How does it go?

Jordan 37:27
teachers teach because they can’t do what’s the face? Is that those who can’t do teach and dance yet? Yeah,

Rosanna 37:34
not that one. Yeah, to, to be able to do something as mastery of it is mastery of the knowledge that you’ve learned as Darth Vader like, now

Jordan 37:43
the apprentice has become the master.

Rosanna 37:46
Yeah, like that, like that one. So really, the big question is like, what do you want to learn more about? So that you can do something like what is it that you want to do? Like what’s holding you from doing something, maybe it’s that you don’t know enough about it, or you don’t know where to start? You don’t know where to begin? And so whether it’s running the marathon, like you have to educate yourself to run a marathon, you’re not just going to like run like there’s the physical component. But there’s there steps before that. So you know, what book, can you pick up? What podcast? Can you listen to? What ecourse? Could you sign up for? What seminar or webinar? Can you attend? Who can you talk to? Like, maybe there’s an area of interest and you know, someone who has a contact? They’re like, what about setting up a coffee date or lunch and picking their brain or talking to them about their experience? So you know, just thinking about if we want to be and do bigger and better things, like, what do we need to learn in advance to get us there?

Jordan 38:35
Right. So there’s a lot of opportunity out there to do it. And a lot of I think, I’m feeling like just the the excitement and the the internal motivation to want to pursue those things.

Rosanna 38:48
Yeah. And we live in a world where like, the world is our oyster, and there’s so much knowledge at our fingertips. So all we have to do is figure it out, figure out what we want to

Jordan 38:56
go. Yeah. That’s great. And well, thanks for listening, everybody. And we hope you enjoyed today’s conversation, and we’ll look forward to having you join us next time. Hi. Thanks so much for listening to today’s show. We hope you will use this conversation as a starting point for your own. We hope you’re encouraged to think and act more intentionally.

Rosanna 39:19
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Jordan 39:31
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Rosanna 39:34
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Jordan 39:42
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Rosanna 39:48
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