Season 2, Episode 2: Speaking Their Language

Rosanna 0:15
Welcome to season two, episode six of the relentless pursuit podcast. This episode is titled our flaws and shortcomings.

Jordan 0:23
That’s right. So we’re gonna trim this from a couple hour conversation that we could have to our typical 30 to 40 minutes. But this is one of those conversations where we are gonna get, I think, pretty vulnerable with one another, because we’re really going to talk about ourselves and with all of as well. And, you know, when we originally thinking through season two, this was one of those that I kind of proposed, and I never really thought it would make the final cut. So I’m very glad to be here having this conversation with you. Now, I think it’s necessary that we have it.

Rosanna 1:00
He proposed this, we we hadn’t even yet finished recording season one. And we were starting to generate a list of ideas for season two, when we were driving on a road trip, because we had a bunch of time in the car. And so like as we were talking and thinking about things, we would just like add it to the the note section on our phone. And he’s like, we should do an entire episode, calling out our specific individual flaws and shortcomings. And I looked at him and I said, Are you insane? You want me to publicly talk about the ways in which I think I fall short as a human being and share that with the people who are listening. And it’s not even just an audience of people who don’t know us like there are people who know us that are listening?

Jordan 1:39
Well, they could maybe add to the list.

Rosanna 1:41
I’m sure they could. But you want me to admit that publicly? I go I and I had a couple words for him. But here we are having this conversation.

Jordan 1:49
Yes, yes, it was good. So you know, I think it’s, it’s really important for us to to have this conversation with one another because it’s it’s great for people to be with other people that they trust and with whom they can be vulnerable around with whom they can get, I think like some some feedback from and also it’s it’s great to do, I mean, a lot of what we’ll be talking about is a little bit more of like self reflection, but it’s great to have someone who knows you that you can do that alongside. And so that’s why I think it’s really important exercise that we’re about to indulge in. But maybe more importantly, something that we we don’t do enough, or we do maybe only when something goes wrong. And we have to point out or talk about one of these flaws, rather than acknowledging them, anticipating them and then making improvements to ourselves as we go.

Rosanna 2:41
So I think we’re lucky in the fact that we can do this with each other, I know that some people are in relationships that they maybe don’t feel safe for are unable to be vulnerable with the other person in a relationship. So this doesn’t necessarily just have to be your spouse if you’re not there. But even having trusted people in your corner, whether it’s, you know, siblings, or parents or friends that you trust to be able to do this sort of thing with.

Jordan 3:05
Yeah. And it makes me think of like other times, where sometimes we quote unquote, admit a fault of ours, around someone else, almost in a sense of fishing for compliments, like, I feel like when we were dating, he would do that, like, Ah, you know, I’m so fat. And that’s my opportunity to sweep in and be like, Oh, no, you’re not Honey, come on, you know, to try to build you up. I think this is different. Because anything that I you know, I’m going to say anything you’re going to say like I think we can both acknowledge, and then just talk about maybe why that is and come up with some ideas for how to strengthen that. Turn a weakness or a flaw a virus into something that’s strong.

Rosanna 3:42
But I think that takes a level of maturity and understanding and the mindset of wanting to be better. Because, you know, some people just depending on their background, or past relationships, like they might carry some baggage or some trauma that doesn’t allow them to see that or do that. And so that might not be as easy for them to do. Whereas if a partner or a spouse said like, I really want to talk to you about something I’m seeing in you. And you know, expressing whatever that that fault or shortcoming or failure or whatever that nuance is and then having someone really just respond to that in a very negative or a way that is misunderstood. So,

Jordan 4:27
Right, they can keep having a conversation like this under the wrong pretense can really lead to some backlash. I mean, yeah, can you imagine me sitting I’d be like, Rosanna, we’re gonna go through, I prepared a list of things that are wrong with you. And I’d like for you to receive these and make all the appropriate, you know,

Rosanna 4:48
…to my liking, if you could just adjust in a manner to click to the left and click to the right then we should we should be good.

Jordan 4:53
Right. So I can’t imagine that going very well. And also, this is a give and take as well. We’re both opening up anything that’s really important. So I can’t, I wouldn’t recommend you like thinking through everything someone else has wrong with him and inviting them to sit down so you can delineate those items to them. But really, it was all I mean, let me describe the format of the show. So what we’re saying and I did was we sat down and on our own came up with what we would consider three of our biggest, how would we phrase it three of our biggest flaws or shortcomings.

Rosanna 5:30
I wouldn’t even say a flaw like a shortcoming. Like areas of improvement, we recognize about ourselves that like are not top notch.

Jordan 5:38
Okay. And for fun, we also came up with one for the other person that we have not yet disclosed. So this can get really interesting, really fast, depending on how that goes.

Rosanna 5:51
As we reveal, live on the air.

Jordan 5:53
Exactly. So I’m looking forward to getting to that part and hearing all the wonderful feedback that you have in store for me.

Rosanna 6:00
Okay. But all with the intention of what?

Jordan 6:03
With the intention of, of growing, I wanted to bring this up, because I recently read a book called Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke. She is a professional poker player. But in this book, and in her own life has taken the principles of excellent poker playing, and you apply that to all the decisions that you make. And she said, one of the things that poker players do, but actually all of us do, as well is when things go right we tend to take the credit. And so like in a poker hand, when you when you’re like, Oh, it’s because I’m a good player. But when things go wrong, we tend to blame someone else, or we tend to blame just bad luck in general. And that’s what happens in poker, you can imagine, like, oh, shoot, like I did everything I was supposed to do. And I still lost, it’s just bad luck. But in life as well, we’re relatively quick to point fingers. And so this book does an excellent job helping individuals think through decision making. But it also points out that it can be a constructive exercise to really like think through who you are, think through where some of the deficits are. So when you are engaging in any sort of planning or any sort of decision making, that you’re aware of where those gaps may be, and that helps you make better decisions, but it also gives you areas to reinforce. And so that is really why we’re having this conversation is because we have to if we intend on growing we have to be self-reflective. And like I said, that’s that’s self-reflective process is strengthened when you have someone to do it with.

Rosanna 7:37
Well, one thing I think is funny is that just as humans we like naturally tend to want to hide and are afraid of admitting like our faults or failures and our shortcomings. And now now this example is not one that’s like, Okay, this is like a fault. But like, have you ever like fallen asleep watching a movie, like we fall in this one of us has fallen asleep watching a movie, but the other person is still awake? And then you look over and be like, Are you asleep? And what’s the first thing you say? No, no, no, no sleeping? Like,

Jordan 8:01
Why do we even do that?

Rosanna 8:02
Why can’t we just say, like, why can’t we own who we are? The fact that we’re exhausted and that this movie is boring, and that, like we couldn’t keep our eyes open. But like, right away, we’ll be like, I wasn’t sleeping. Or like, you know, same thing like, babe, you’re snoring? I’m not, you know, you know, like, why can’t we just admit it? So I think part of it is just like, knowing who we are. And none of us are perfect. But I think for me, and maybe it’s I don’t know, if it’s just to me or women in general, we want to like portray this idea of being perfect of having it all together, like, Oh, yeah, you’re the she’s such a good mom and be like, what, what are you basing that off of what you see on my Instagram feed, I’m not posting me melting down or the kids melting down. You know, it’s just it’s what what you think you see. And so this obsession with us wanting to be perfect, or thinking that we need to have it all together all of the time that we can’t own the fact that we have some areas we need to work on if we if we want to be better.

Jordan 8:58
Yeah, I think that’s a much better story to tell. So I mean, in a sense, there’s a story that we want others to believe about us. But that applies to ourselves. There’s a story we want to believe about ourselves as well, which is why we’re quicker to cover over and deny our faults rather than address them.

Rosanna 9:14
Yeah. Well, and I think this was recently, you told me something like, not that we were arguing by any means, but you like pointed out something and I was very quick to like, nip what you said. And then I remember like walking away and kind of like processing, like the conversation that we had. And I was like, Oh, he was really right. And I kind of just ended the conversation because I didn’t want to be told that like I was wrong or that I like overstepped and and I remember coming back to you, I mean, the same day, maybe 20 minutes later and be like, you know, I shouldn’t have said that. Like you were actually right. And I felt hurt by it because I didn’t want to admit to myself that I was wrong. And so that is not something you know, five months ago or five years ago that I would have done I would have like kind of brooded over it for a while and been mad at you for a little bit, you know? Yeah, yeah. But you know, that natural tendency of like feeling like because somebody else points something out about us like, we’re the ones that are hurt when maybe what we’re doing is hurting the other person. So just being able to listen and process.

Jordan 10:17
Yeah. Alright, so let’s get to the fun. So each list is…

Rosanna 10:22
Your idea of fun and my idea of fun are a little different.

Jordan 10:25
There has to be a dose of discomfort with with your fun, I think. All right. So, we we have our list here of our list of three for ourselves. Would you care to go first? Or would you care to go second?

Rosanna 10:39
I will let you choose.

Jordan 10:42
Then I’d say you go first. Okay, ladies, First Ladies first.

Rosanna 10:46
All right. So if I had to say what one of my faults or shortcomings is, I think the first thing I would say is that I am uptight.

Jordan 10:56
What do you mean by that?

Rosanna 10:57
Okay, so I feel like I’ve called myself this a couple times, like the momager, which they call I’ve mentioned, like they call you, right? Like I manage our kids, our house, our calendar, our lives, the laundry, the groceries, meal, prepping, you know, just where everybody has to be like logistics. And so like, I’m always so like, focused on like, what needs to happen and when and how and like, Okay, a little laundry has to go. And now because soccer socks have to be cleaned for tomorrow. And like I’m constantly my mind is always so busy. And so focused on what needs to get done, that it’s hard for me to let go.

Jordan 11:32
Okay. Okay, so this is an I found this too – there’s a thin line between strengths and weaknesses. And I think that that line is just I would, I would just define it as excess. So really, what you’re describing is a strength in the sense that you are, you know, the logistics coordinator of the household and of many other things. And that that’s necessary, right? And that’s a strength – things are organized. We were never scrambling last minute for something. Those are good things, right?

Rosanna 12:00
We’re always prepared, right? And this is what I said in my notes. I said, so here’s what’s good about this,. Like when you’re type A, like, everything runs very smoothly here. Everything is very efficient. Nobody ever forgets a lunch or a soccer practice or like everybody is where they need to be and has what they need all of the time. Here’s what’s bad about it is that sometimes I’m so focused on the task, or making sure that there are no deficits that I am not living in the moment and enjoying it. And I think the area I see it most I sometimes see it with the kids because I’m like so focused on like getting them in the car and on time and that baba baba baba baba, that, like I, there are some tender moments that I miss, because I’m too fixated on the end result and not the means on the way.

Jordan 12:44
I’ve heard. Some people are described as like task oriented people and others are people oriented people. And I think you’re good at both. But when this facet of your personality, maybe kind of runs a little bit excessively, then you’re much more focused on the task, and you miss out on the personable moments along the way.

Rosanna 13:04
Right. And people would describe me as personable, but those are in moments where like, I am not managing anything else. And I’m like supposed to be personable. I’m probably one of the most personable people. But when I have to…second to you. But when the two mix, what takes over is this like management mentality. And although I see that with the kids, sometimes I think I see it with you most. I am unable to relax, my mind is always like, like 15 head steps ahead of where I’m at. So sometimes it’s hard for me to let go.

Jordan 13:39
Sometimes I mean, we have it’s a most of our time together is of quality. But sometimes it’s like, Alright, let’s have an intimate conversation. Okay. All right. So tomorrow at 8:30 I have a quote, timeout. This is not my idea of an intimate conversation, but there’s there’s some necessity along with that, too.

Rosanna 13:55
So and so that’s something to that I think. I love my mom, I think I’d bring up like every third episode, but she is someone who kind of helps me see that too when she says things like you do more in the first three hours of your day than some people accomplish in a week. So give yourself some grace. And like take a moment to breathe or take a moment to do nothing. And so more and more each week I try and find those moments where I’m just okay like the bathroom if it doesn’t get cleaned today. It’ll get clean tomorrow and if it’s not tomorrow and it’s next week Thursday, so be it ain’t nobody coming over and using my bathroom upstairs no one can see the state of it except for me so like to take some of that pressure off of the to do.

Jordan 14:39
Yeah. Okay. All right. I will I will go into my list here.

Rosanna 14:45
It’s folded. He’s he’s keeping it private.

Jordan 14:47
No. You already looked at this. So there’s nothing private about this. Yeah, I’m just not sure where to start here. Okay, mine. I’ll pick this one because I think this is this is similar, but it goes in a different direction for me. So I’m more of I would just say I can be, I can be a thinker, which will, I think, caused me to there’s many moments where it requires action. And it requires like a response. And I’m in the moment, but because my, my default is to, like take a step back to try to think to try to absorb to try to understand. And I would say that, that that can be a strength that in some cases, but many other cases, I’ve missed so many opportunities where something should have been said or something should have been done. And I think it also leads to I would call it like this analysis paralysis as well, where I mean, how many things have i have i just like endlessly like thought through or like even even studied or read about and then there’s no no action that takes place? Or if it does happen, and happens well after the fact?

Rosanna 16:04
I mean, yeah, I mean, I’ve seen you do that. Because you are, well, what’s one of the terms we’ve used to describe you through the years? Cerebral. You’re just like a thinker, and you’re very smart, and you’re very inquisitive, and you want all of the information in front of you, and you want to weigh it equally, but that takes a whole lot of time. Which is the opposite of me, because I’m a responder like someone says something, I think about it, I process it, I like spit it out. So what’s good about that, for the two of us is that both of us aren’t like always responding right away, one of one of us kind of steps back and…

Jordan 16:39
That could be a little volatile. Yeah, right. So I can’t think of I mean, I think the the humorous example is when you’re in a moment, and like, somebody makes you mad, and you don’t say anything, but then like in the shower the next day, then you think of the thing that you want to say, like, Oh, you know what, I should have told that guy, you know? That is that is that is you know, my many moments my life, like, in a nutshell, where there’s there’s things where I’m like, Oh, I I should have said this, I should have responded this way. And and but instead of doing that to felt like I wanted to, there’s just more processing that I needed to take place. What if I’m wrong? What if I don’t know the full story? And then I miss step and make a bigger fool of myself. So it’s like, I’m not gonna say anything. I’m not gonna do anything at this moment. I will later but only after I put the requisite time and effort into making sure I get it right.

Rosanna 17:31
So how do you feel like you’re working to like combat that at this point? Like, you know that like, you like you’re, you’re, you’re overthinking paralyzes you from doing. Do you feel like you take that your Look, you’re working on steps to like, take more action in a quicker amount of time and not worry about the like, being right, but like responding so that the moment doesn’t pass by and then that like that chance is gone?

Jordan 17:58
I’m not really sure what to do. I mean, it’s so strong of a default that. To me, it’s kind of the same thing now like how how do we understand myself in this mode? Sure. What should I study to help me?

Rosanna 18:09
Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness, can you stop? That’s awful!

Jordan 18:13
Right. But what what, what do you do? I mean, if if the default is overthinking, how do I how do I not think my way out of it?

Rosanna 18:24
Oh, gosh, I don’t know. But do you see how good you see how that fault or shortcoming whatever however you want to, and it’s not a fault, because to think something through so thoroughly to make a correct decision is a great thing.

Jordan 18:38
Right? It can be an asset on many occasion.

Rosanna 18:40
Correct. But do you think you’ve, you’ve seen that brought to light in in your career path? And how that has hindered you or helped you in various paths? Right?

Jordan 18:51
Yeah, I would say so. Because there’s a lot of instances that come up that kind of require a response. And so I don’t feel I don’t feel in control enough to even if I do give a response, I doubt if that is the correct thing to have done. And I think that that doubt becomes visible becomes evident. And, you know, I’m calling into question what I’ve done, and I need to go back and process that and then maybe, maybe I can support that decision after the fact. But within the moment, as I’m thinking through it with with others it it just, it feels uncomfortable to be in that position for me.

Rosanna 19:28
So do you think it’s been helpful to be in more positions like that to stretch you out of like, letting those scenarios paralyze you? And like, almost like sharpening that, that tool of like having to respond or does it just make you so uncomfortable that you want to remove yourself from situations like that?

Jordan 19:45
I don’t know, because like we’re saying like it, it can be a strength in many instances as well. So I think it’s just becoming more cognizant of when it should be leveraged and when I need to just kind of you know, just run with my gut and be okay with it.

Rosanna 20:05
So should we go back to me then back to you? Okay, so back to me. So I think this one is kind of related to what you’re talking about where you’ll kind of just stop and you’ll like, think for a while and then and then come up with the proper response based on all of this thinking and analysis. I would say my second fault and shortcoming is that I have a very short fuse. And honestly, like, very like, I’m like this like very heated person, but of the two of us, right, like in like, parenting? Who’s gonna be the one that’s gonna yell at the kids? It’s totally me. Like, it takes very little for me to be like, call you out, shut you down. You’re done.

Jordan 20:48
Yeah, I don’t, then yeah, that happens. But I don’t see that as a flaw necessarily. Like, like, I would consider I would describe you kind of like this, this one of those quick like, passing summer storms, where you got to put up with a little thunder and lightning along the way. But ultimately, like it you you saturate the the earth with your water, and it passes and the sun comes out pretty quickly afterwards, as well.

Rosanna 21:17
Oh, that makes me feel very, so much better about how I feel about I think, you know,

Jordan 21:23
But I never have to wonder what you’re thinking. It’s like, here it is.

Rosanna 21:28
There’s a crack of thunder. A bolt of lightning.

Jordan 21:29
Okay, now I know. Yeah.

Rosanna 21:34
I’ve kind of we’ve talked about this a little bit in like, just how, like, I respond in other episodes. But I think as a mom, you know, I spend a lot of time with our kids, I’m mostly home with them. I do work, but it’s, you know, weekends or even, you know, evenings. And so I do a lot of the child rearing. So like on a on a day where it’s a 12 hour day with the kids. Yeah, I mean, like, right, you’re, you’re there to correct and admonish, and sometimes punish your kids in order to train them what is right and what is wrong, and what expectations are, and when they’re loud. And you have to be louder to kind of like, get their attention. But that’s something that I worry about, in the sense that, like, people will see me with my kids. And we have fun, and we do great things. And I’m intentional with them people like Oh, she’s the perfect mom, like, you know, they think I’m, you know, some kind of Disney Princess and the birds are, you know, they fold my clothes in the morning for me, and everything is great. You know, being a mom is hard. And it’s I think anybody that’s a mom knows that you’re not happy 100% of the time, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows, but I think that’s hard for me to know that, like, I have to, like, that’s part of like who I am. And that’s part of like, I don’t know, that’s part of who I am, which I’m trying to work on. I’m trying to be like more Zen in the moment. And you’re I mean, you’re so good with the kids for a variety of reasons.

Jordan 22:55
Oh yeah. I never yell. Never blow a gasket.

Rosanna 22:57
Well, I mean, you do but take a take takes more for you than it does for me, but you’re like, you know, you’re you will, you will verbally like talk them through the scenario and the decision they made and how that’s wrong in this like, very calm manner. And so like, I observe that and I’m like, okay, like, I need to do more of that, like, maybe that’s more of the approach that I need to take, like, I can still be a good you know, I’m, I’m a good mom as I am. But I could be better if I took a more like gentle approach. And then there are times where the kids are not at all responding to the gentle approach. And I feel like I have to yell to get their attention. So you know, it’s a it’s a double-edged sword. So here I am publicly saying that I yell at my kids. Yeah. And that’s like, hard for me to want to admit because as we said before, like, not that I’m trying to pretend that I’m perfect, but like, you know, that’s hard for me to say that.

Jordan 23:52
Yeah. Well, I think there’s been multiple moments where I’ve seen the I’ve seen the storm begin to rumble and I’ve tried…

Rosanna 24:03
Take shelter!

Jordan 24:06
I’ve tried to quell it just be like, we’re saying, like, this is not the issue or This is not the time to, you know, to go there then maybe more grumbled towards me then then towards them at that instance, or whatever else might be going on. But I think that’s one thing that can you know, it can be that that voice to just be like, Alright, like, here’s, here’s what’s going on. Let’s remember this conversation and try to recalibrate.

Rosanna 24:31
And we had talked about this in that last last episode, that like piece of accountability. Like, I feel like this is something that I want to work on. I’ve told you that and you’ve done that where you like, look at me be like, this is you know, their boys and that’s what’s helpful to like, how a mom would respond to like what boys are doing, which does not make sense to me. You know, you are a You are a man, you were a boy, you’re like, Oh no, this is like a totally normal thing. This is nothing to like get upset about. So it’s, you know, when there’s a little bit of accountability There, it’s like you can help me like, understand and process something so that I don’t kind of give into that fault or to that shortcoming that I see. And you’re like, Okay, I’m kind of like train me up a little bit.

Jordan 25:11
Yeah. Okay. Challenge accepted. Just don’t shoot the messenger.

Rosanna 25:17
All right. What’s number two, I want to see what what else you’ve got.

Jordan 25:21
I actually have so we’re supposed to choose three, I had a, I wrote down more than three. So now I have to select here. You You won’t be at all surprised by this. But this this bothers me about me. And one thing, I think I’ve improved on…

Rosanna 25:37
I feel like nothing bothers you. If there’s a fault, it’s that nothing bothers you. You’d like such a cool cucumber all the time.

Jordan 25:43
This? Well, this bothers me about me. And I don’t think you’ll be surprised when I mention it. But I think because I like to maybe stemming off of the first one where I’d like to think through things and kind of come to my own assessment of whatever the topic is. I do have a strong propensity to think I know what is right. Right. Yeah, look in your face. It’s like, yeah, totally.

Rosanna 26:10
I don’t know what you’re talking about. This is news to me.

Jordan 26:13
And it’s, you know, in part, because I have poured in many instances, but not all, you know, poured a lot of time and energy into like examining a particular topic or an issue or just ruminated on enough to develop a strong opinion about, you know, whatever it is. And so when someone has something that’s different, I, even if it’s like a neutral subject, where they just do something differently, like sometimes I can look a tad askance at their…

Rosanna 26:45
Your choice of diction during these patterns are just uncanny.

Jordan 26:48
Yeah. So. And that, that bothers me about myself, because I would prefer not to have that. I don’t know what you would call like that, that kind of wiring, that way of thinking, that is even just internally like just wondering if what this other person is saying what this other person is doing is, you know, up to par, because in most cases, like, it just doesn’t matter doesn’t affect me, it doesn’t mean anything. But I wouldn’t say I’m a super judgmental person. But I think there are many moments where just internally I’m thinking to myself, like, that’s not the way I would do it. And I love being around people who are just not that way. And I feel like most people are, are not that way, where you just totally comfortable around them, you feel like 100%, like, just accepted by them and loved by them, like regardless of who you are. And I’m grateful everyone who just accepts and hangs out with me. So I think that that’s, that’s one area that I’ve I’ve been conscious of for a long time. And I’ve tried to just consciously like, correct my own thinking.

Rosanna 27:55
So you’re saying that you’re too judgmental of others? Is a flaw is one of your flaws? Because, okay, I mean, I feel like to some extent, we’re all like that, oh, that’s how she did it. That’s not how I would have done it, like, great. Like, don’t we have to write anybody who’s who does something different than us? I would say, I bet. I bet most people could agree, to some extent as one of their faults is being judgmental of others. But I feel like as I’ve gotten older, and as our like, friends and family have become more diverse, I think it becomes easier to like, accept differences, because not everyone is just like you. And so you see a variation of things where people are still good. And they may hold the same values, but their, the way they display them or like the way they –

Jordan 28:47
Just the way they think or the way that they can run life, right?

Rosanna 28:50
The values are the same, but like their life may look different. So so it’s not it’s not that you’re judging them, you’re like, oh, hmm, we can think the same things or have the same values or beliefs, but like, the way you live your life is very different than ours, because, you know, you’ve chosen to orient it this way. And I think that’s good to see that it doesn’t have to all look one way but that the values and beliefs are similar.

Jordan 29:14
That’s what I was gonna say is the the antidote is exposure to like more diversity when if you’re around people who the majority of whom do things just like you, then you may be feel more comfortable around them. But at the same time, when someone is outside of that circle in any regard, then that’s it’s gonna look strange. But if you’re around a lot of people who I guess look strange, in a sense, then it stops really being a thing, and you don’t have to think about it.

Rosanna 29:42
Well, I think what I found is by hanging out with people who are different than you, what I’m always surprised by is although they may look different than you, so whether that’s you know, for a variety of reasons. To the core, we’re so similar and that’s like what always, like, there’s like this wow moment every time where I’m like, we couldn’t be any more different yet. We are the same. Yeah. So it’s kind of cool. Yeah. Total tangent there. But –

Jordan 30:10
No I think it’s right on, right on point.

Rosanna 30:12
All right. So then are we at number three? Okay, so number three, I would say, I’m very critical about myself. And I think that’s a fault that I’ve been working on, more recently, to correct. Because I think I would say like the last year and a half to two years, I feel like I was letting how I perceived myself hold me back from what I’m capable of. Like, I would give myself excuses for why I couldn’t do certain things. Because I didn’t have a good enough perception of maybe like, who I was, or where maybe there was some, like, actual talent or good that I could be using, because I was kind of like, afraid of who I am. It was hard for me to acknowledge my strengths, it was hard of me to be proud of the good things about me, when I spent like, a big part of my life not loving myself for who I was, because I was always focused on trying to be like somebody else. So I think working on trying to do things outside of the box, has given me like the tools to like, really grow this last year and be like, okay, these are, these are things I’m good at, these are things I’m not good at, like, I’m gonna be okay with what I’m good at, I’m gonna work at what I’m not good at. And if people like me, then that’s fine. But at this point, I finally feel like I like who I am. Yeah. And I like what I see. But for a really long time, like, I let my own kind of critical voice in my head keep me from trying things because I thought I wasn’t good enough to do them.

Jordan 31:47
Yeah. I think we all have that voice. And it’s just what volume do we allow it to be turned up? And how much, how much do we listen to it?

Rosanna 31:56
Well, I think for a long time, for me, it had to do more with my appearance, where it wasn’t like comfortable, or I thought like I should look different, or you know –

Jordan 32:05
I’ve always been comfortable with your appearance.

Rosanna 32:06
– weight, or like health or like lack thereof over we’ve been together a long time been together, how many years 20, 21, 22 and then get married for 14. And so obviously, through that time, I’ve had kids, so we’ve gained weight, we’ve lost weight. And so you know, looking at yourself and kind of not recognizing who you are, like, takes a little bit of like a mental emotional toll on you. Because when you’re not comfortable with how you look, you’re also not comfortable around other people. And what’s interesting is that no matter what I looked like to you, like to you I always looked fine. And I don’t want to say like fine, like, okay, you look fine. Like you’ve always loved me –

Jordan 32:48
You always looked like you. You always looked beautiful. Like it never really seems to fluctuate with a number on scale.

Rosanna 32:52
You really couldn’t keep your hands off me, it didn’t really matter. But to me, it mattered. And there were times where like that kept, you know, just kind of wanted to recoil because I was not comfortable with myself. But then I let that kind of carry over into other realms where like, I should have been trying and doing different things, but I let like my discomfort with my appearance keep me from putting myself out there.

Jordan 33:16
Yeah. Yeah.

Rosanna 33:18
I think that’s the girl thing that sometimes you don’t understand. Like, when I talk about things with, you know, things, things in the woman realm. He’s like, I just really can’t connect to this right now. Like, I know that I’m your best friend. But like you said, maybe you should like talk to your, uh, your friend or your mom about this, because this just is not computed in guy world.

Jordan 33:37
I can understand it logically. But yeah, I mean, that can be a struggle, but I think in terms of appearance, they say that women will tend to, like see themselves like, lesser than what they are. And men will tend to think they’re more attractive than what they really are.

Rosanna 33:54
Well we’ve had this conversation. As you get ready in the mirror and you’re like “I was looking at myself today when I was brushing my hair, and I thought MAN I look good!”

Jordan 33:59
And I thought checking myself. Yes, so lucky. Yeah. But I think that – I think appearance is one aspect of that but I think for you and I think for the typical person, there’s many areas where we have just this critical voice that tells us not to or I think especially now we compare ourselves to other people, or usually other people’s highlight reels. And that is going to make that voice a little bit louder and keep us from shining in the ways that we could be. Alright, I’ve got my third one here. Alright, so this I guess this kind of goes along with the other two but it’s another another facet of it. I am what I would call a simmerer. Alright, so if you’re if you’re the storm, that that that you know, it explodes and then it passes then I’m more like the the boiling pot of water on the stove. And many times when something bothers me you know my response is, like “everything’s fine.” I’m that person in this relationship like, Oh no, nothing’s wrong, everything’s great. What? But what I’ve, what I’ve realized is that like, while I might in other regards my life like just kind of brood over a topic until I feel like I have a sense of control over it when I’m feeling frustrated or annoyed or disappointed or like whatever that negative is, then I’m just going to internalize it and brood over it until it actually becomes bigger than it ever really needed to be. I know you agree, I guessed it, we should have come up with a prize if we guessed what the other person –

Yeah it’s like the Newlywed Game, right, you got to like hold up the sign. And if they match, you get points. Okay. Um, yeah, that’s exactly what I had for you.

Well, shoot, I had other ones on my list, I should have should have brought those out. Okay, well, let’s, let’s explore this one. And if we have time, then we can get into some other other faults and flaws. Okay. So I think it’s because like, for me, I want, I don’t want to feel negative about anything. And I and I often don’t. So like, I’d say, 90, some percent of the time, I’m happy go lucky. So when these feelings do come in, for whatever reason, I feel like I want to I almost don’t want to admit that that’s the case. I don’t want to admit that there’s something that has come up that I think has gone wrong, or has disappointed me in some way. And so I’ll just internalize it so that I can like almost like own that feeling a little bit more. And I feel like if I express it, then it I don’t know, I almost don’t feel justified in feeling that way. Like because if I look at the everything that I have –

Rosanna 36:44
Because you don’t want to judge somebody else.

Jordan 36:46
Yeah. And I don’t want to judge somebody else or disappoint someone else by letting them know like, how they have let me down or you know, just like whatever is annoyed me so but I don’t feel just been having that feeling. So I almost want to reason myself out of it. But it backfires every time like for years. The the more you keep it in the the worst said it kind of spoils everything.

Rosanna 37:09
Yeah, I mean, we’ve had this conversation. I’ve had this conversation, we’ve had this conversation multiple times where it’s like, you could have just told me in the moment that that upset you. So then what I do is I basically follow him around the house for days being like, Hey, babe, everything, okay? And then he says, I even wrote on my sheet, oh, I’m fine. I’m fine. And then I wrote, he sits and he stews, and then I hear about it well, after the fact, when it’s too late. And like, I can’t even apologize in that moment because he’s stood on it so long. He’s actually more aggravated now than he was three days ago. And then like, there’s nothing I can do.

Jordan 37:47
If it’s about you, I’m more aggravated that you haven’t figured it out in the meantime, because your powers of, you know, telepathy –

Rosanna 37:54
But I know what the problem is. But I asked him, Hey, everything, because I need him to I say, he’s a great communicator. Like he has a blog, he writes articles, he has a podcast, but for some reason, he cannot find the words to say, I’m disappointed because or it upset me when you said this because… it’s it’s one sentence with a period for me to be like, Okay, I’m really sorry, I said, but he, for some reason, cannot find the one sentence but he will write a multi paragraph thesis and post it on the internet.

Jordan 38:28
Sure. Well, that’s, I’m not expressing my disappointment towards anyone in those either. So I have two questions for you. One is, do you think that I’ve improved in this regard over the last few years? I’m better at communicating –

Rosanna 38:42
You’ve definitely got better in communicating. We talked about those Monday nights, or like couch and together dates. And I think that was huge for us, because there was an intentional time where we could talk about anything. And so sometimes it was work, or sometimes it was, you know, just other topics. And you were just, it was like this practice of you like just communicating a feeling associated with like, what was going on and you are processing what was in your mind out loud, which seemed to help catapult you out of kind of like being in your head and making a decision about moving forward.

Jordan 39:15
Because I’ve tried to be better about it. My other question and this is kind of a weird one. But sometimes it’s hard to say something so like, what are your thoughts on just maybe not just for us, but for like your typical couple, like, what are your thoughts on like, expressing some kind of like this may or some negative feeling through like a text or through an email or through like something that is and has a little bit more space built into it? Do you think that that is a good idea or bad?

Rosanna 39:46
That’s interesting you say that because you’re I mean, you hate when people text like, I’m texting back and forth with someone He’s like, you’re totally reading into that. That’s not what she meant. And you should if you want to talk to someone, you should call them. Yeah, not even call them. You should talk to them face to face. So it’s interesting that you bring that up. But I think if it’s hard for you to find the words, or it’s right, like, it’s too confrontational for you, I don’t know that I would send a text. But I mean, if it’s a spouse, like a little note, Hey, sorry, I was in a bad mood last night, I did get a little upset when this happened. So it’s like, at least it’s like, okay, I can acknowledge that this happened –

Jordan 40:20
You almost need like a template. And I can just print it out, fill in the blank lines with whatever I’m putting in the take home folder for the mom to read and to hear the printer going, like, oh, shoot, I can, I’m gonna get another note.

Rosanna 40:32
That like how like telegrams used to come through with like – . So I mean, but if that’s a tool that works, but –

Jordan 40:40
We almost have to agree, I’m like what would work. Because I don’t that then I don’t want someone to be insulted either. And say, like, –

Rosanna 40:45
Are you afraid to tell me because you think I’m gonna yell at you? Or, but it’s more about you. And I feel like we’re talking about yelling, like, people are gonna think I’m this dragon lady that’s just always yelling.

Jordan 40:56
No, I mean, it has nothing to do with you. And I think with other people, too, you know, just depending on the type of relationship, like it can be hard to bring up something in a way which you were, you know, hurt or offended or disappointed, because then I feel like I’m going to like, put those feelings on this other person, and then they’re going to be hurt and offended or disappointed. And that doesn’t seem very productive. So like, if I can just stomach this and move on maybe that would be better. And maybe in some cases, so it depends on what it is. But most of the time it needs to be articulated.

Rosanna 41:31
Right. The toothpate in the sink. Just clean it up. But I think honesty is probably the best policy. Yeah.

Jordan 41:39
All right. So

Rosanna 41:41
So your last one was what I had guessed, or what I had said for you. So the only unfinished unresolved thing here at about 43 minutes, okay, is a fault of mine that you see that you would like to call out publicly? Okay.

Jordan 41:57
Well, let me consult my list here. I only get one?

Rosanna 42:02
Number seventy-two says….

Jordan 42:05
I’m kidding. I did. Alright, so I know, you totally picked up this list. So I there’s one that I didn’t write down, that you actually came up a little bit earlier on. So we can talk about what I wrote down here later on. But I think this one will be more interesting too. It actually has to do with the subject of our conversation today. So I think you are, I’m just gonna put it out there.

Rosanna 42:28
I think, like, so worried right now,

Jordan 42:30
I think you’re very bad at taking feedback.

Rosanna 42:33
I am very bad at taking feedback.

Jordan 42:37
Because I know and so sometimes I don’t want to say anything because I like your, your first reaction can be like, almost like to like nip back. So if I say like hey, Rosanna, like, this is what I’m seeing. And then I know, like the like the, whatever I just said, it’s Yeah, it’s gonna be like reflected back to me. And it’ll be, you know, it’ll be like, you know, my fault or how it’s like, I’m equally guilty in some regard. And so I think we’ve talked about that, too, because it’s almost comical, like, I’m like, I knew you’re gonna say that, but actually listen to what I said. And –

Rosanna 43:10
And I knew that I was gonna do that. But like, that’s, but that’s like, my initial like, disposition where like, it’s like, I have so much, almost like shame. Yeah, like, whereas like, I, I don’t want to be told that I am not who I’m supposed to be. And so my natural inclination is to like play defense. And then reflect it back at you. So it’d be like, okay, you’re also not perfect.

Jordan 43:37
But I will say this to our I, maybe I should rephrase this, you’re not really bad at taking feedback. In the initial moment you are prone to respond that way. But I think, like over over time, maybe over the course of a few minutes, or a day or a week, then you, you do like, think about it. And then we have, I think a more productive conversation afterwards. About what you know, whatever it was. So I guess in that regard, like you’re really good at it, it’s maybe just if we could just skip that first step where we’re defensive.

Rosanna 44:13
You get the storm. And then after it comes the cool rain you you wish we could just skip to the cool rain that nourishes as opposed to the –

Jordan 44:21
Yeah, yeah, something like that. So, you know, I want to bring that up, too. Because I know we’ve talked about that. And I think that you’re I think you’re aware of it, and you’ve you’ve grown in that regard. And for me, like I’m not even, you know, like fazed by your response. Sometimes I’m like, Alright, I just, oh, well, we’ll get through this portion ot the response, and then I know the good stuff is coming.

Rosanna 44:44
Well, and I think it’s the same way with the I’m fine. It’s, I have to ask the question. I think it’s like a minimum of like, 37 times over the course of four days to move past the I’m fine to what the actual problem is, or was. And so like, it’s just several days of I’m fine before I get the answer. And knowing that about you, and what you know about me, like, helps us work through it. But maybe we could be a little more efficient by being a little more honest and a little bit more open in those regards and a little more vulnerable in the moment instead of after the moment.

Jordan 45:17
So we appreciate all of you listening to Rosanna and I have this this session, where we’re open with one another and open with you as well. And it is, I think, a productive, even, you know, quasi therapeutic exercise to be involved in with one another.

Rosanna 45:36
Yeah, and I think I really think the takeaway here, if there is, one is that we can’t be so afraid of admitting our mistakes and missteps, that we’re reluctant to change. Because even in our last episode, we talked about like in the world that we are in and the relationships here and we have to continue to move forward. And in order to do that, like there needs to be growth. And in order to grow, you have to be able to acknowledge what isn’t working to make it work. So I still cannot believe that we had this conversation, I still cannot believe that I am admitting like these faults publicly for people that we know and don’t know to be like, Oh, they really don’t have it all together. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows and puppies at their house.

Jordan 46:15
Well that’s one of the reasons I thought it would be good to do this episode too. So like, I don’t want people to get the wrong idea. And think like, Oh, they they have it all together because of this reason or that reason –

Rosanna 46:24
Or we know them and we know they don’t have it all together yet, thety’re pretending that they do.

Jordan 46:28
So I think that’s the case of like, let’s let’s let’s kind of engage in this with one another, but also show people that it’s okay to have this kind of conversation. So no one puts us on a pedestal not that they should, but that we all are kind of in the same boat of like just being human, and acknowledging that we all have ways that we can grow. One of the pieces of feedback too, is that I don’t think that we have to I think engaging in the self reflection is important. But I also think it’s helpful to ask for feedback, as well. So maybe there’s a spouse or relatives or colleagues, all of whom know you to a certain extent and can probably, if requested, like share, some maybe very enthusiastically, some of the the flaws or shortcomings you may have, and I think it should be part of our regular exercise to request that feedback so that we can always remain cognizant of where we want to try to double down and reinforce who we are.

Rosanna 47:24
Well, and maybe you don’t have to say it as what are Can you please list for me my faults and shortcomings maybe like, What are some areas I could work on to strengthen who I am? Something a little more positive.

Jordan 47:36
Right? Yeah. How are you choose to phrase it.

Rosanna 47:37
Areas of improvement. Well, thank you for joining us for this episode. I hope it was helpful for you for your relationships and even for how you see yourself moving forward as we continue to grow in the year 2020, the one that is unprecedent unprecedented like any other.

Jordan 47:55
Absolutely. Thanks for joining us today, everybody. Bye.